What does it say when we fail those who have given us so much?
How does the structure of our society complicate our problems?
Why does the stigma of mental health endure?
These and other critical questions are addressed when military mental health advocate William Negley joins The Rabbi and the Shrink.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/wwnegley/
1:00 How do we ensure mental health care for those who protect our country?
Sound off
Fighting stigma
Why chaplain care is not always enough
Filling in the gaps
Meeting people where they are
6:00 Why mental health stigma persists?
Bureaucracy, trust, complexity, desire for anonymity
Fear of blowback
10:00 The tragedy of crisis going unnoticed
What is the national security cost?
Meeting the need for anonymous care
Context creates awareness
23:00 What is the cause for explosion of PTSD
Does returning to a fractured society magnify the effects of trauma?
Lack of shared experience and resulting isolation
27:00 The ethics of responsibility
The ethics of awareness and guidance
How can we help?
Repaying our debt
When service itself places us among the vulnerable
The ethics of self-care
36:00 The word of the day: Pentimento
the presence or emergence of earlier images, forms, or strokes that have been changed and painted over
Mona Lisa is painted over multiple images
Our unseen layers shape and form who and what we become
By probing the underlayers with the intent to heal the whole person
What does it say when we fail those who have given us so much?
How does the structure of our society complicate our problems?
Why does the stigma of mental health endure?
These and other critical questions are addressed when military mental health advocate William Negley joins The Rabbi and the Shrink.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/wwnegley/
1:00 How do we ensure mental health care for those who protect our country?
Sound off
Fighting stigma
Why chaplain care is not always enough
Filling in the gaps
Meeting people where they are
6:00 Why mental health stigma persists?
Bureaucracy, trust, complexity, desire for anonymity
Fear of blowback
10:00 The tragedy of crisis going unnoticed
What is the national security cost?
Meeting the need for anonymous care
Context creates awareness
23:00 What is the cause for explosion of PTSD
Does returning to a fractured society magnify the effects of trauma?
Lack of shared experience and resulting isolation
27:00 The ethics of responsibility
The ethics of awareness and guidance
How can we help?
Repaying our debt
When service itself places us among the vulnerable
The ethics of self-care
36:00 The word of the day: Pentimento
the presence or emergence of earlier images, forms, or strokes that have been changed and painted over
Mona Lisa is painted over multiple images
Our unseen layers shape and form who and what we become
By probing the underlayers with the intent to heal the whole person
Welcome to the Rabbi and the Shrink, this is Dr. Margarita Gurri, your shrink. And this is everyone's favorite Rabbi,
Yonason Goldson:Yonason Goldson.
Margarita Gurri:Well, the good rabbi and I are delighted to have with us not once, but the second time. William Negley. Welcome, sir.
William Negley:Thank you for having me excited to be back.
Margarita Gurri:We're especially delighted with the timing. You are the founder and CEO of sound off. And yes, it sounds like military sound off. And it's a organization devoted to helping vets and service members, military intelligence individuals and their families to do well with mental health, especially combating suicide. And it's an IT based mental health network with an effort to change not only the delivery system for mental health support, but attitudes. So welcome, sir.
William Negley:Thank you. Thank you.
Margarita Gurri:So why do this let's start off, you've told us last time you were on and I love this story. Let's start there. I think it's a great story.
William Negley:What which, which,
Margarita Gurri:why start sound? So I'd like to be clear, right. So that wasn't clear. Let me start over. Why start sound off.
William Negley:So you know, context on me and where where I was, when I started this foundation, I joined the Central Intelligence Agency in 2009. And my mother's a mental health professional. So I jokingly say I grew up on a couch. stigmatization was not a thing for me not because I'm any tougher than anybody else. I just, it's the family that I grew up in. So 2011, we started to hear about this 22 veterans suicide a day number. And it was just very evident to me. And I think anybody else who's lived and worked in this community, that there was this fundamental flaw in how we provide mental health support to the veteran service member, broader national security community. And that flaw to really sort of simplify down is it doesn't matter how much money anyone is spending, VA, department, defense, nonprofit, if the Navy Seal, CIA officer marine won't come in, sit down on a couch and talk about what's going on, all of those resources are relevant. And I just knew, again, because I was living it. A lot of these men and women for reasons of concern of cultural stigmatization or professional blowback, were not going to expose themselves. And it just seemed equally intuitive to me. Well, the fundamental barriers, they don't want anyone to know that they are seeking help, right? Why don't we allow them to seek help without anybody knowing. And that seemingly simple idea is complex, in fact, on every single possible level, but it's been the driving thesis of this organization now for the better part of a decade, and we would strongly contend is what is necessary to reach this population that is definitionally, otherwise not engaging with mental health support.
Margarita Gurri:And yet we have in the military chaplains, who are in the trenches, and they're the most confidential mental health professional in the world, and they come from all faiths, they're not allowed to tell anyone that they seeing you. And yet there comes a time when for a service member or veteran well, especially service members that are actively serving, that it might be important to put it on their medical file, that they're needing support. So later on, if they do something less than lovely. They have backup otherwise they get fired. No, it's been it's it's a conundrum, isn't it?
Unknown:Yeah. And so first and foremost, I would emphasize, we're not competing with anyone. No, you're not somebody if somebody is going to the VA, if somebody is going is effectively engaging with support with the chaplain, somebody's going to, you know, DOD or other nonprofit resources. I don't want them coming to sound off our target audience. The statistic on this that we sigh misses out of Rand is that 47% of post 911 veterans and service members who have deployed who meet the definition of major depression or PTSD have not sought help in the last year. That's not That's not a chaplain. That's not a nonprofit that's not anywhere.
Margarita Gurri:These include the veterans who are actively serving
Unknown:That includes those serving and that tracks. So our target is that 47% That is not engaging. And, yes, we fully acknowledge and recognize that it creates for some strange structures and tensions. But ultimately, you know, we are philosophically of the view that and you know, I think we received support that agrees with this, it is ultimately a net benefit that that person be seeking help or engaged with how versus not engaged at all right? I mean, we don't claim to be the best, absolute best option, we claim to be better than nothing. And again, for our target audience, that's the alternative is that they're not engaged with help
Margarita Gurri:at all, well, better than nothing is not as good a moto moto as a monitor for those who answered the call.
Unknown:Yes. Just to say it differently, you know, to see our other Moto, you know, support on their terms, really the derive the driving philosophy here, we should not force them to change their concerns, legitimate or not about professional blowback or stigmatization, we should meet them, where they are to allow them to feel safe accessing help,
Margarita Gurri:Rabbi.
Yonason Goldson:I mean, that's that's the point that's really worth following up in here and everywhere, meeting people where they are. But what occurs to me is that, you know, we're sort of the most counseled, and there are PI's does that work. It is now generate generations ever, I mean, that the stigma of therapy is almost completely gone. Political leaders, CEOs, celebrities, where everybody's talking about the therapy. How can that hasn't spilled over into the military?
Unknown:Well, I would. It's funny, you're asking this question, because just in the last two days, I've seen a fair amount of data on to other populations, collegiate athletes, and medical professionals. And, you know, we use the term this is a really important distinction. So sound off emphasizes four core barriers to entry. Bureaucracy takes too long too complicated geography, I'm too far away. Trust, I don't want to talk to a doctor. And then what we call a personal and professional desire for anonymity. Most people say, stigmatization, that's really not an a precise way to describe this, because it's really two separate things. There is cultural stigmatization, I don't want my friends, family community to know that I'm seeking help. And then there's concern for professional blowback. Right? I could lose my security clearance, I could lose my my, you know, MD license, that is a distinct and real thing. That often gets conflated with stigmatization to your question now. You know, I think we don't need to pretend that there is not a heightened level of, let's say, machismo within the United States military that might dissuade that. I generally agree with you, though, that we are seeing, and I've seen a little bit of data and a lot of anecdotal reporting on this, that the the United States military has been burned down so badly over the last 20 years and how it's been used. There is an increasing acceptance of mental health support and engaging with mental health support at the interpersonal sort of cultural level. But ultimately, that doesn't impact may not impact the issues around concern or professional blowback that prevents as many of these men and women from seeking help as not
Margarita Gurri:one. One message I've heard that has helped many people get help is the connection with head injury, the closed head injuries or others, and calling it a brain injury, not mental health, even though the brain is about mental health as well. That loophole, which is a reality that people think of it as I can get help because my temper is because of my head injury, I can get help because my depression comes with my head injury, you know, the rage and all that kind of stuff. So that's been a fascinating new opening. And into stigma free health. But then you have to say you have a brain injury. And how does that limit you and some range injuries you heal from and some you do not. And it's on a dimmer switch, some you'll always have, I have a TBI from a drunk driver, or there's always some things that I won't be able to do the same. Most people wouldn't notice. But there's no stigma since I hire myself. I'm self employed, right?
Unknown:I share a story. And I think we're going to discuss my brother in law here. I'll share a story about my brother in law, who was a seal, who was struggling with this exact issue that decision to engage with support, he ultimately went to what is known as Nyko, the National Intrepid Center of Excellence. And it was exactly what you just discussed that allowed him to feel comfortable seeking help. They're that they were a they kind of marketed themselves, I think, somewhat to their credit, probably strategically. So as a whole body, we're looking at everything, we're checking the whole system out. And so he didn't have to, in that context confront a will we're talking about PTSD or something. We're looking at the whole machine, if you will. And of course, as part of that we're going to look at the brain in the head and the mental health because we're checking out the whole machine.
Margarita Gurri:I love that. I think it's good. So good. Tell us your story, please. Because I think it's very compelling. And, and just so that everyone knows the context, you spent quite a bit of time in Afghanistan. You've been an aide. You see, I'm trying to think of who it was you were an aide for who were the
Unknown:senator Hutch. So I finished graduate school in 2007, and came to DC and was a national security staffer for Senator Hutchison of Texas. Wow. And that sort of funny story I tell is I was two weeks into the job. And I went to the Chief of Staff and I said, Hey, I really appreciate this first job. But this isn't really what I want to do. I'm really trying to join the CIA, and with the senator, it'd be willing to write me a letter. And I think he was just so half shocked, and half, you know, thrilled that this young person was coming to him saying that, that he ended up getting to write a letter, which undoubtedly help, you know, make it an agency
Margarita Gurri:advisor on national security issues. And we all know that the wellness of our troops is a national security issue. Because you know, as you know, as a refugee, I believe that our military keeps America free and strong. Yeah. And so I'm always grateful for that. Yeah, I
Unknown:don't I mean, I don't consider myself a nonprofit professional. I mean, I'm certainly not a clinician or a researcher, anything else.
Margarita Gurri:And you are a nonprofit.
Unknown:I mean, I consider myself a national security professional you are, I see soundoff, as you know, fundamentally serving a critical element of our of our national security. I just saw an article in CNN this morning, that they had to pull 200 sailors off of an aircraft carrier, because the number of suicides they've had on that character. Well, what is the national security impact of having to pull, you know, 200 sailors off of that ship? How are how is the operational capacity of that ship impacted? So I see these things is very much, you know, related together,
Margarita Gurri:I do too, I think you are certainly in the right, the right person for the right job. So please share with everyone the story of your brother in law and how you came to the point of sound off.
Unknown:So So 2009, I joined the agency, he doesn't 11 We start hearing about these numbers. And again, this this answer seems fairly intuitive to me. And for the first couple of years, I didn't do anything about it. Because I said, it's such an obvious answer. Somebody is going to do this, right? The VA is gonna build something that lets people engage anonymously. I go to Afghanistan in 2012, come back in 13. And nobody's done it. And this idea has continued to sort of percolate. And I said, I gotta I gotta try this. So 2013, I take some leave without pay from the agency to start kind of building the basic infrastructure of this organization. We had a big funding deal with a with a very large veteran focus nonprofit that ultimately fell through because they were having some financial issues. And so 1314 15 We're trying trying to overcome what is a fairly fundamental chicken or egg problem for soundoff. You know, I didn't set out to build an app, I set out to allow individuals to engage truly anonymously with mental health, peer or clinical support. And the same individual over and over and over, we real treatment. The only way that I could see to do that was through a piece of technology. Because if I see your face, if I've got your phone number, if I've got your name, it's not enough. So we needed to overcome this, in hindsight about a million dollar chicken or egg problem to build the technology before we could help a single person. So we have this big deal to kind of follow through. And that the kind of final nail in the coffin on that deal is January 2017. So that spring, I'm in Texas, and we say okay, we're just going to try and raise a little bit of capital to do a really minimum viable product in the state of Texas to demonstrate the thesis of Lumberton. And then June 9 2017, Bill molder, my brother in law killed himself and Bernie, Texas,
Margarita Gurri:Bill, so sorry about that.
Unknown:Thank you, Bill had retired from the SEAL teams 127 days earlier, the last decade or so at SEAL team, six deaf group. And it was precisely this issue. Bill was never going to expose himself in a way that he felt, rightly or wrongly, would compromise his reputation of career. So by the time he got out, he was, you know, in pretty bad shape. So, here, I've been running around with the PowerPoint deck, quite literally talking about all these men and women that won't engage with mental health support, and it's literally going on in my own family. So with Bill's death, my sister gets very involved in our organization as a sort of de facto spokesperson. And all of a sudden, were able to raise the capital necessary to build this platform.
Margarita Gurri:He would be so proud, wouldn't he? Yeah,
Unknown:I mean, and, you know, I think both for Sydney, you know, more importantly, for Sydney, my sister, but also for myself, you know, it's kind of cliche to say, but it gives some meaning to this terrible tragedy. Yes. And, and it is, and I'm not taking anything away from these organizations, but it's very common for somebody to die in combat, or somebody died by suicide, and somebody starts a foundation. And I think that's wonderful. And they should do that. But I think it is fair to say, the fact that we had literally been working this for years. And this was the exact issue and that, you know, the answer was kind of in the hopper, so to speak, made for a very powerful relationship between my sister and myself, and, you know, ultimately, our supporters and what we're doing now.
Yonason Goldson:It's unfortunate that sometimes it takes these type of events to be the catalyst. Here, as much as good as our intentions are as much as effort we put into it. Sometimes it just takes something tragic to
Unknown:require. I mean, um, yeah, yeah. You know, the data didn't change, my presentation didn't change, right? I mean, credit quite literally, my presentation didn't change. It's just the 12 minutes before the presentation by presentation. Now my sister's on stage, telling the story ripping your heart out of your chest and people are really paying attention.
Margarita Gurri:That's sad. That is really sad. And now you have sound off. I noticed that on your website. It's sound off sound hyphen off right.com. And people can go in and get information on how to help a loved one or help themselves how to find a way to be supported if you want to be a buddy appear buddy or if you want to be a mental health provider or if you want to donate money. I also noticed you have since I may I didn't notice the last time we interview but yeah, this beautiful shop that has this really cool t shirt that has it's it's kind of like camo but not and it's got these blue eyes. Tell me about the t shirt. When
Unknown:asked about that. So I drew that
Yonason Goldson:drawing Wow.
Unknown:The fall after September 11. And, you know, I knew I was sort of interested in entering the military, obviously, that was a very militarized for lack of a better term time. Yes. And, and so you know, now literally two decades later, when I was starting this organization, just that image that I had drawn really resonated with the work I was doing in sound off. And so I said, Let's make a t shirt out of it.
Margarita Gurri:And if people buy your mug, your two mugs, one with the logo, and one with your motto. And the T shirts, you have two different T shirts there, does that money go toward your donation funds or
Unknown:everything all dollars coming in anywhere go towards, you know, the ultimate work that we're doing. And, and, you know, it's just discussed the economics of sound off a little bit, because it's, it's, it's both challenging in that we've had to overcome again, that sort of chicken or egg problem. But But now, over the last few years, we've made, we overcame what I call that first heart problem of funding that technology. But then we faced early 2020, what I call it the new hard problem, which is scaling and growth and awareness. And that became very quickly evident that that was an exceedingly expensive thing, too.
Margarita Gurri:It is expensive. Yeah.
Unknown:So I mean, as as an example, we were looking at a one year budget for Texas alone, just for recruiting clinicians, peers, and and informing veterans and service members about our service, and about a million dollars, we realized for an organization without a revenue, you know, without an earned revenue line, that is not a sustainable number. So we now partner with other benevolent organizations, and work together to drive that outreach effort in their community. So organizations like the Navy SEAL Foundation, Special Forces, Charitable Trust, EOD, Warrior, and others. And we get to remain the technology provider in the middle, acting as a force multiplier to all of these organizations that we partner with
Margarita Gurri:brilliant that because then you can do the thing that no one seemed to be doing. And then you're the connector. I love that idea. And you talked
Yonason Goldson:about building a kind of a coalition and a partnership Alliance, it reminds me, I wish I could remember who gave this TED talk. But it was really fascinating. These days, he proposed he was he questioned that the the, the soldiers in World War Two, experienced the same type of horrors that modern soldiers did. And yet we didn't hear a lot about PTSD, back then. And his thesis is that when those soldiers came home, they came home to a much more cohesive, structured society, where most people were invested in the same values. And therefore they could find the kind of support in their communities that they felt when they were in the military. But now we live in such a fractured society, that soldiers come back and they feel lost. And it's not entirely what they went through, it's that they don't have anything really to come home to, that replaces that camaraderie and that structure and that those common values. And so what you're describing is by expanding a kind of support infrastructure, on many different levels, is trying to compensate for the lack of a supportive structure in society at large.
Unknown:Yeah, and and I think that is a significant can of worms that I had that I will I will weigh in to say, I think there's both and in the sense that we have relied upon a smaller group of people to be fighting our war more consistently for a longer period of time than maybe ever in human history,
Margarita Gurri:or Absolutely, and there's less and less time in between the deployments. Just such a sacrifice
Unknown:and and on the other side that population that is serving has become increasingly demographically isolated. Yes. So the ability for communities that are not part of that demography. It's the exact challenge that you're discussing that the ability to engage and relate versus, you know, my, my grandfather, who was, you know, from a wealthy family and San Antonio, lost both of his brothers in World War Two. And he was not unique in that experience. Everyone knew someone, yes, engaged in that war, it was a national collective experience. That to be quite, I mean, not to wait in the politics of this. But if, if that had been the experience of the last 20 years of work, it wouldn't have been 20 years of work, because everyone feeling it would never have allowed it to drag out for 20 years, good, bad or otherwise. And I have my views on those words, but, you know, it was really felt by such a small percentage of the population that allowed it to accent and so now, exactly to your point, when they're coming home, you know, they're walking into, you know, GE corporate America, you know, how do I translate this? How do I relate to this, and there's a lot of good organizations that are helping do that, and helping helping those, those those veterans transition that way. But it's certainly more challenging than, you know, 80 years ago, when there was no transition, because everybody else GE had been at that war with you to exaggerate the point.
Margarita Gurri:So Rabbi, one of the things that I love, the way you address is the whole issue of when we invite a compelling guest on the issue of that and ethics. So please address that I, I, we need a rabbi input.
Yonason Goldson:Well, I mean, I think we're already into it, we are in the ethics of responsibility. I mean, ultimately, that's that's intrinsic to our definition of ethics is taking responsibility, being disciplined to recognize and take responsibility for the impact our actions have on others. And that doesn't only mean our public behavior because our private behavior becomes public behavior. And to start with being aware, you know, what you're doing while you miss, you're helping us recognize the immediacy of an issue that we're all vaguely aware of, or somewhat conscious of that bringing it home and hear your own personal story that is so compelling, of course, because who knows, if somebody that I'm very close to I mean, I taught high school, and I had a student who was a lovely young lady, she was always smiling, she was always cheerful. And one day in college, she jumped out of her dormitory window in Manhattan. And, you know, I had no idea. Yeah, I had no idea. And so the ethics of awareness, first, knowing that there's a problem that may be much closer to home, and second, getting some guidance, what can I do to help because I don't always see how my actions can directly support those in need. And being able to bridge that deck need to be able to communicate that a provider, an infrastructure, where as I can make some sort of significant contribution, whether it's time money, thought, effort, communication, that itself is a profound service to the community, because we all are, we all depend on each other. And then we owe such a debt of gratitude to those who put their lives on the line for the ideal of freedom.
Unknown:Yeah, I mean, that's that and that's that's spot on. I mean, that really is our role and this is this is you know, as the organization has matured, it's increasingly become clear that that is our role is to provide that avenue by which people like my mother, who's a young in analyst can come on and engage with a army D officer, explicit Ordnance Disposal officer who otherwise was not ready to talk to anybody. And now she's been seeing him in her private practice. was for a year and a half pro bono for her. And, you know, so that is that is our role and and, you know, to the to the ethic of supporting this community, you know, this is, there's a lot of people struggling across this country, and I believe that we have an obligation, you know, a collective obligation to support our fellow man and woman. But this is the population that is to some degree, struggling, because they stepped forward and volunteered on our behalf. And that is just to me a fundamentally different thing, and kind of puts them at the front of the line. You know, I want to support everybody. And believe me, we have discussions about how can we bring Sound off in support of all different communities, and we're having those discussions. But why did I start this with with this population beyond the fact that it's, again, my life's work, because my brother in law died, because he spent 20 years kicking in doors on behalf of this country. And you can agree or disagree with whether we should have been doing that. But he wasn't given a choice. He volunteered and went and did it for a lot of people who did it. So I think we have a deep, deep ethical obligation to support those men and women. And to expand one bid on that. This problem is both immediate and very long term. You know, when we hear about the 22, veterans suicide today number, the preponderance of those suicides at that time, were Vietnam veterans. This is not a today problem. This is it today, next year, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 30 years from now problem isn't going away, if anything is gonna get worse. And so to the degree that we can make it today problem and get those men and women to engage today, how can that change the outcome? 20 3040 years?
Margarita Gurri:I think that's wonderful. So since you're one of the things that the rabbi and I talk about, in terms of ethics is the ethic of self care. Since we want you around for the feeling well, and healthy for the next 2030 years? What are you doing, sir, for self care?
Unknown:You know, we were talking about this before, it's it is challenging. And anyone who has really, you know, been a startup, which is fundamentally what we are founder, it's challenging, there's a lot of a lot of books and a lot of work done for to support startup founders. You know, and also, for
Margarita Gurri:people immersed to the issue of, of mental health crisis
Unknown:that isn't, so you got a double
Margarita Gurri:whammy? Yeah, that's
Unknown:an excellent, that's an excellent second point that, that being exposed to violence, and in this way, can be can be challenging. You know, I, there's a lot of things I should be doing better. And I'll say that upfront, I should be eating better, I should be, you know, working out more and all of those things, but, you know, I've got a wife, a two and a half year old and a five year old, that are my whole universe. And so, you know, as as much as we both work, and she's, she's a university professor, you know, what provides me greater joy and relief in my life than anything else by mail is 5pm. Albert, my, you know, almost three year old is bashing in the door and my five and a half year old daughter are coming in the door, and I get, you know, a couple hours with them. And that really, again, it's not everything I should be doing, but but that really, to me, is a really meaningful you know, stress relief slash, you know, wonderful experience to be able to have,
Margarita Gurri:well we know that belonging and meaning and affection are some of the antidotes for stress and for some, not that you're suicidal, but for people with suicidal challenges. So I think you're Showing them the way that's wonderful.
Yonason Goldson:represent the children represent the future. Especially at that age when they're, they're adorable.
Margarita Gurri:They are delicious. Yeah.
Unknown:Yeah, if they were teenagers, I might have to be figuring out something else to do to relieve my stress
Margarita Gurri:a little bit. I tell you what teenagers help us become better versions of ourselves. It's there a challenge. And if you have a platinum Tongue Groove, where you can bite your tongue repeatedly, it helps but I you know, they teach you things you never wanted to learn about yourself in the world. I
Unknown:mean, I'll tell you what, my almost six year old daughter, starting now, for the first time to sort of see the the IRAs a little bit in the attitude. I'm just thinking, oh, man,
Margarita Gurri:well, congratulations. We certainly do not want boring children without personality. So we're,
Unknown:we're good personalities, that's
Margarita Gurri:for sure. Speaking of not boring rabbi, do you have a word of the day for us, sir,
Yonason Goldson:I do have a word of the day, I figured somewhere that I came upon. Recently, I think I probably got it from our friend, Susan Brooks, other grammar goddess, the word is pentimento pentimento, which is the presence or emergence of earlier images, forms or strokes that have been changed and painted over. So I'm certain that a certain fascination with the Mona Lisa, like put on the cover of my book proverbial beauty. But the there's all the all the art critics and art students have have theorized, what is it that makes Monalisa so compelling. And they've done X rays, and they found that Leonardo painted image after image after image after image on the same canvas. And while our conscious mind only processes, the top layer, but all those layers beneath, add a kind of texture that we process subconsciously, that gives depth and life. And I thought that was an appropriate word for our discussion. Because really, aren't we the same. We have layers and layers and layers. Of course, anybody who's seen Shrek knows that, you know, not only ogres, but all human beings are onions, we have our layers. And some of those layers can be traumatized, can be damage can represent trying times, but it's the totality of our experience that forms who we are. And it's the willingness of us to look beneath the outer layer of others, to recognize who they are the sages say, Judge every person favorably, but you can also read it in Hebrew judge the whole person favorably, until we understand the whole person, we really aren't in a position to make any kind of reasonable judgments. And so what you're doing, William is you are probing for the underlayers to help heal the wounds to help create a more whole person, that people where they can judge themselves, we have to judge ourselves favorably, as well. And so we really salute you for what you're doing. And I know that that doctor, you we're very excited to have William because of the good work that you do with with vets and with suicidal patients, which is a tremendous service as well. So I really do so they both of
Margarita Gurri:you. Thank you. Thank you. Wow, that was good. That's a perfect word for you. So William, with that perfect canvass? What would be final words of wisdom call to action? Yeah, today.
Unknown:So certainly, you know, sound dash sound hyphen, off.com. One day I'll get sound off.com And under that domain is going to hinge. You can learn more about our organization. If you are a mental health professional, you can sign up by the application to volunteer your time, if you are a veteran, you can learn about becoming a peer supporter. And then of course, we're always raising financial support to fund this technology. So and you know, most importantly of all, if you are a veteran service member or national security professional, who is struggling, you know, by all means come to us, or seek help elsewhere, as you know, most importantly is that, you know, those people are seeking help. More broadly Even that I would, you know, my term macro view of of sound off and the broader call to action, the discussion that we're having is to be more thoughtful, ethical, proactive, and how we think about solving these challenges and the need to move beyond what can be sort of stagnant status quo at times. And, and, you know, think differently and proactively about what we need to do that may involve questioning, challenging some, in some cases long held preconceived notions about you know, what, what the answers are, because, you know, at least and this challenge in the veterans service members suicide challenge, it's not working, and we need to do something differently to support this population.
Margarita Gurri:That's, that's lovely. We're, we're grateful to you for what you're doing. We're proud for you and your family for while you're doing hey, we'd love to have your, your Elizabeth read on some time. And we would also love to have your mama on.
Unknown:He's also a rockstar union
Margarita Gurri:analyst. Ooh, ah, that's wonderful
Unknown:advice. So a little two more sentences of my mother before she was an analyst. She was a cordon bleu trained chef for many years.
Margarita Gurri:We need you to hook us up with these two powerful women in your life.
Unknown:So she so in her and much of her writing, she combines sort of imagery of food and with with her analysis, mommy, alright, thanks for a compelling discussion.
Margarita Gurri:Well, I I can't wait that that's wonderful.
Yonason Goldson:Thanks. Thank you, William. It's really quite inspiring what you're doing and it's it's, you know, it's it's it calls on all of us to ask ourselves, what can we do to help those whom are indebted and those who are in need? So thank you very much. Doctor, what's your last word?
Margarita Gurri:Yeah, my last words. It's Mental Health Awareness Month. And it is a good month, of course, every day is reach out to a vet. And we got to remind everyone that even current service members are considered vets because they have served already. intelligence officers, and those who support them, show them love, appreciation, a sense of belonging, affection, be there for them reach out doesn't take much you don't have to talk about suicide. But do reach out with some loving support. And I think then the world will be a better place. That's all I had to say about that. Thank you again, William, and of course, Rabbi. This has been the rabbi in the shrink, bringing to William William Negley and sound off sound hyphen, off.com. Helping vets and service members all around the world, especially now with may Mental Health Month. You all take care. We'll see you next time.
Unknown:Thank you for listening to the rabbi and the shrimp everyday ethics unscripted to book Dr. Red Shoe, Dr. Margarita, Guri, or Rabbi Jonas and Goldson as speakers or advisors for your organization, contact them at the rabbi and the shrink.com. This has been a doctor Red Shoe production