How does the “Great Resignation” point the way to creating a workplace renaissance?
Why is unlearning a greater challenge than learning, and how does it take leadership to a new level?
Why is genuine curiosity an essential component to an ethical culture?
These and other enlightening topics are addressed when renaissance leadership guru Jean Marie DiGiovanna joins The Rabbi and the Shrink.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeandigiovanna/
How does the “Great Resignation” point the way to creating a workplace renaissance?
Why is unlearning a greater challenge than learning, and how does it take leadership to a new level?
Why is genuine curiosity an essential component to an ethical culture?
These and other enlightening topics are addressed when renaissance leadership guru Jean Marie DiGiovanna joins The Rabbi and the Shrink.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeandigiovanna/
Welcome to the rabbi in the string. This is Dr. Margarita Gurri, your shrink. And this is my favorite Rabbi
Yonason Goldson:Yonason Goldson.
Margarita Gurri:The good rabbi, and I'm delighted to have with us Jean Marie DiGiovanna, welcome.
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:Thank you. It's great to be here.
Margarita Gurri:Well, we're all in for a treat today. Genuinely is a renaissance leadership expert. And she really is a renaissance person as well. She started out in the IT world growing her business as one of the founding partners for 90 people to 4000. Worldwide. Wow. It's hard enough to wrangle three of my assistants. She's become a global speaker, and trainer and award winning author, she has won an award by women's business in Boston, the top 10. Coach, that's no slouch. And to book success as a state of mind, and stop, stop talking. Start asking questions. And your whole thing is about thinking and rethinking. And if that's not enough, you're an artist. And if you can see those of you who are looking at the video, look at the background. Jean Marie does abstract art. Welcome. We're just delighted.
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:Oh, thank you. I'm really happy to be here. Thanks for joining, tell
Margarita Gurri:us about your art. I know that's not the main thing people start with. But the rabbi and I are intrigued by your philosophy about including your art. So please talk to us about it.
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:Sure. So literally, since I was very young, about five years old, I was I love doing art. And I was inspired by my grandmother, because every time we went to visit her in New York City, and I have four brothers. So you know, it was like, how do you keep everyone engaged. And you know, because we were all pretty young at the time. And she would literally dump a big box of crayons on the dining room table, throw some paper out, and we'd all just start making art and she was incredibly creative. So I think that was how I was inspired. Because I didn't study art in school, I always took classes, I was one of those obsessed, you know, adult ed takers, to taking everything from, you know, painting, to pottery to whatever. So it's just always been a part of my life, it feeds my soul, it's meditative for me. And even if I'm on the road, I always bring something watercolors, something I can express in a different way than what I do in my work and one feeds the other. So that's why it's important for me to kind of integrate them.
Yonason Goldson:I think most of us have that creative impulse in some form, whether it's words or music or, or different forms of art, or you know, things like coding, looking for ways to take what's inside us and bring it out into the world. And that's, that's part of being fully human, I think
Margarita Gurri:that is part of being which is one of your big things psychologically safe in a workplace environment. So please talk to that issue about integrating art, and all the principles your house or Renaissance leadership in a psychologically safe workplace.
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:Sure, one of the drivers for me in what I do is to respect people for all that they are not just the pieces required for a specific role, or the results they produce. Because in the end, and we all see from the great resignation that people are looking for more meaning they want to, to utilize more of their gifts and talents. And so that's where this whole concept of Renaissance leadership, which is really about honoring all of your talents, not just pieces of yourself, so that we bring to work all of us. And just like you said, Yan missin, that, you know, it's about honoring all of it, the coding, the art, the musician, the all the different roles that we play. So yeah, I'm happy to share the five Renaissance principles just at a very high level. And if you want to dive into any, we can definitely do that. So the first principle is ask new questions. This is really about asking the questions no one is asking because, in the end, at least I can share in my own life and my own business. The times I've grown and develop is because I asked a new question, or someone asked a new question of me. And so that's one of the things I teach inside organizations, with leaders and their teams because it's so important. The second one is honor the diversity, diversity of ideas. As perspectives, cultures, people, you know, it's kind of all of it, right? Because we can ask these great questions. But if we're not open to hearing the answers, and it's all for nothing. And then the third principle is connect to innovate. So one of the things and the reason I kind of developed the Renaissance leadership is because one, the Renaissance has always intrigued me. And since I was young people would often say, oh, you're a renaissance woman, or you're, you know, I didn't know what that meant. And then I realized the leaders of that time, were honored and valued for not just the depth of their expertise, but the breadth of their expertise. And so, at the time, for example, meta chi, who was a famous banker, he would gather together all of these different people, journalists, artists, scientists, engineers, to solve problems. To me, that's the principle around connecting, making new connections to actually innovate to come up with new ideas. Improv is another great example of how we do that, right? And then the fourth principle is act with accountability. It's not just about taking action, but how do we create an environment where people are hold themselves accountable? Because I don't believe anyone can hold another accountable, it's how do you create the space to create ownership for that. And the last principle is called magnify the impact, right, you can have all of these wonderful ideas. You know, I work with a lot of high tech clients, because that's where my background is, you know, I work with teams, teams across organizations who create these amazing solutions for their own clients, and then a team next to them, right, could be creating something similar and not even know that it's already been created. magnifying the impact means how can you take your idea, your solution and share it with more people across the organization, across industries, you know, this is kind of the whole concept of open, where it's like, oh, you know, and because the more we can share, the greater the impact, and the more innovation that happens. So those are the five principles that I teach and go into a lot more detail in longer programs.
Yonason Goldson:So you're saying that, we often make reference to our acronym for ethics. And I was immediately trying to see how that lines up with your with your five core principles. So the E is empathy. And I see that as an element of diversity is wanting to understand other people in order to have that that rapport. The the T is trustworthiness, which goes to accountability, making sure that I am trusted, and that I show trust for others. The age of humility. And I think that goes to magnify impact that idea of sharing, sharing credit, sharing ideas, sharing results, it's not about me, it's about what we can produce together. The eye is inquisitiveness, so that goes to asking the right questions. And and the see is courage, which is the connecting for innovating, is looking for new opportunities, not getting stuck in the status quo. And then then the essence self discipline, which is really just making it a process not checking boxes, but keeping ourselves growing in all of those areas. So I, I press, by the way, I think I think when you talk to people who think deeply about leadership, about culture, you find the same basic ideas and riffs occurring in different language, but we're all homing in on the same kinds of ideas.
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:Exactly, exactly. And there's one thing I would love to add, which is, it's not necessarily explicit in the principles, but it's to unlearn. Right? We, me learning is so important, and having that mindset of, especially with leaders of growing and developing, but at the same time, it's just as important to know how to let go to unlearn things that don't serve us or serve others. And to me that's kind of taking leadership to the next level.
Margarita Gurri:Yeah, I think that's part of your been looking at some of your body of work. It's part of the asking new questions. Just if you're asking new questions that no one's asking. Clearly, you're in some unlearn mode, because you've had to like put aside your precious status quo, and the skin that Rob and I keep talking about, like what keeps people getting stuck or being unethical, and a lot of that has to do with each of your five Renaissance principles and the the The ethics that we talked about the empathy, trustworthiness, etc. It's, it's amazing. When you work with companies, why are you doing business these days? To get people stuck? Why is it they're not flourishing more?
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:Yeah, breaks. The biggest thing is what I would call fear. And fear gets in the way of speaking up, of staying open, of making change, or ability to change taking risks. And so all of those fears, impact the environment and the safety, the psychological safety of the environment. And I'll tell you, I mean, sadly, it's very prevalent in organizations today. And so, you know, yes, it keeps me working. But in the end, I would love to get to a place where that's not an issue where the environment is safe enough and open enough. And that requires courage. It requires leadership who are willing to be okay, hearing the bad stuff, right. And the elephants in the room get to be shown up, get to show up. And there's not a ton of judgment. It's like, okay, here's what's here. What do we do about it?
Margarita Gurri:I love your handout with the six questions that I asked you want to address that? I do not have that in front of me. I just love that handout.
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:Sure. Yes, the the handout is about six questions that I use with teams to help increase psychological safety. And some of them, you can look at and say, well, there has to be a little bit of trust already embedded in the team to ask some of these questions because they're deeper questions. And the whole idea is, and I think this will align with ethics, as well as it's like, if you want to create a safe space, you have to show and be caring about the people you work with, and genuinely have a genuine interest in who they are, what makes them tick. What keeps them up at night. And so the questions are literally six questions that have to do with not only how am I doing as a leader, but like, what's the thing I do that's distracting our success? Or what's the thing that you know, that I do that's helping to contribute? What's one thing I want to I need to know about you to have our relationship work better? Where do you feel like your skills and gifts are being underutilized? So it's specific questions that really help open up the dialogue?
Yonason Goldson:What I hear from these questions is it's an a conscious effort to get to know the people that we work with. Yeah, we work together, they work for me, I worked for them. And whenever I hear these terms, psychological safety and state safe spaces, I always get a little uncomfortable, because the term safe space was was hijacked, I believe, by by the universities in trying to create the sense that nobody's ever going to say anything that could possibly make me uncomfortable. And it crushes inquiry. It doesn't allow for trust, it doesn't promote courage. And it makes us profoundly fearful. So all the things, all the elements that you've spoken about, that are necessary for psychological safety, are actually being sabotaged by creating a culture where we dare not say anything that might possibly conceivably make someone else uncomfortable. How do you how do you reconcile this the proper approach to safety with when the good intentions actually actually become counterproductive?
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:Right, well, one thing is just to acknowledge what's been sabotaged, and to go back to the place of what will actually work for us to be effective together, to have honesty and to to create an environment where where people can share the good, the bad and the ugly without feeling judged. And so the way that I typically reconcile it is you don't because change happens when there's enough pain is to point to the pain and to, to literally ask the question, what's the impact of you not speaking up? What's the impact of having the elephant in the room? Continuously day in and day out? How is that impacting you, your team, the health of everyone the health of the organization? And, you know, I mean, sometimes they actually go to the point of what is it costing you? And in the end, the business case justify is okay, we we have to change. And then the numbers are proving it because people are clearly leaving in great numbers, because they are no longer tolerating that environment. So it's waking people up in a good way. And people are learning to
Margarita Gurri:ask that question. What am I willing to get up for happiness for peace yarn can fully trained right for success? Right. And I think that all the time that we have spent doing the pandemic at home, has invited some people to ponder more, and some people to stop thinking more. Rabbi, can you address that? The Reverend I was talking about how people reacted when they're scared. Right? So Rabbi, I love your take on that people and thinking,
Yonason Goldson:well, somebody, somebody posed the question, what do you want written on your epitaph on your gravestone? And, and mine was always, he made us think I was. I mean, doctors heard this story before I was teaching high school. And then I always use the Socratic method, posing questions, because I wanted to show students that often they can come up with the questions on their own, they don't need me. And this one girl, very, very bright, young lady, she suddenly burst out, why can't you just tell us the answer?
Margarita Gurri:I love that story.
Yonason Goldson:And it was at the time, it was only I think, my second or third year teaching. I was so stunned by the question. That and I sort of struggled to respond, as I, you know, sort of like, why is there air in the room. But this is the problem we face is that we want everything easy. We want to pre digested we don't want to be challenged too much. Because while I might have to actually rethink my positions, I might have to reevaluate. I was quote, my college professor Max Berger said, I don't understand people complain about being disillusioned, I would like to be relieved of my illusions. So many of our illusions come from ideas that we simply absorbed without really processing them without really given sufficient amount of thought. And it's, it's a discipline. And it takes a certain amount of courage. And it takes humility to say, I don't know, I might be wrong. Maybe there's another way of looking at this.
Margarita Gurri:And Jim Murray, what I liked about your Renaissance leadership is you give people a little nudge in the clarity for rethinking, and you're living the lives I mean, you do this international speaking and writing the artwork that you do you ski fast. I want to know more about that. And dancing, live Latin, new to live Latin music, I'm thinking, you know, wow, all of that done for your business, that you're diving into all of this interesting stuff? What's it done for you? Um,
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:well, it's provided different angles of what I can bring to the table. And just like any of us, we we have different facets to ourselves where there's different dimensions that each of us have. And if we're willing to dive deep into those different dimensions, then it expands all of what we can bring to the table. You know, so, for example, you know, I, even in my corporate work, I talked about physical movement, right? physical movement, shifts the state of our mind, and that's what dancing does for me. In fact, dancing is an amazing analogy for so many things. Especially for women, right, women who are are wanting to take charge and it's like when you dance with a partner, you have to learn to follow. And there's a there's a actually a beautiful Yeah, I mean for the man for Well, yeah, and leave and follow. But what's beautiful and I, even in my own life, what's fascinating is I, I've been dancing since probably for over 30 years now. And, and my dancing would inform my life and my life would inform my dancing. And the more that I was willing to let go, and let someone lead me, it actually was freeing and that doesn't mean being submissive. Right? It doesn't mean, you have to be told what to do. But there's a fine balance and learning how to let go is is a really important part of being leader.
Margarita Gurri:Absolutely,
Yonason Goldson:that's a that's a beautiful analogy. Because there are times when we all need to lead. And there are times when we all need to follow. Yeah. And recognizing, when in fact, the sages have a teaching this say, in a place where there are no leaders strive to be a leader. And then they add on to that. And they say, what's the implication of that statement? If there are others who are leading, let them lead? I don't have to be the one who's in that position of authority or control. You know, what, if everybody in the cockpit has his hands on the same? The same control stick? Yeah, it's not going to work? Yeah. And so being able to support others, when it's appropriate, is really a demonstration of strength and confidence and security, that I don't have to be the one who's doing everything all the time.
Margarita Gurri:And there's a whole movement out there on followership that go hand in hand. Yes, I created a program called Tango leadership, ah, spring. So they put their hands up, and they take turns, who leads and who follow Yeah, you're just by your body power, your, your intention without talking, you can lead people around it. So leadership exercise for nonverbal communication, and it's fun. And I can see that a lot of people I know, bristle at the idea of being followers. But everyone's a follower and everyone's a leader. So
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:and, you know, it brings up the skill of delegation as well, right? Because I work with plenty of leaders who when we talk about, Okay, it's time to delegate some of these things that you're doing, because it doesn't make sense for you to do them. Yet. Instead of seeing it as Oh, if I delegate that it allows me to do something new. They see it as, Oh, my God, if I don't do that, or someone can't do it as good as I can. That then why, right. So, again, it's delegation is about the skill of letting go.
Yonason Goldson:My son now works for a very big investment bank. And he had just, he just started working there when they have one of these team building exercises. And you've got all these alpha males from New York City, and the skinny little Jewish guy from St. Louis. And everybody's got an idea, this is what we have to do, this is what we have to do. And he was able to move in and said, Well, you know, that's a really good idea. And if you combine that with his idea, and those things, and he was he was able to really negotiate or get them to negotiate, so that they could take their collective strengths, and harness them and put them in a direction that would solve the problems that they had to face.
Margarita Gurri:So he became a leader by, in some ways, being a follower grouping, you know, highlighting the strengths of others, which I think is important.
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:Yeah. And if I could, if I could just add, because that's a great example of connecting to innovate is like, that's what he did. And I want to also say, and this is something I've been mulling over in the last several months is the importance of facilitation. The skill of facilitating, as a leader has is sort of a lost skill. Yet, in this day and age, as we move into this next era, it's going to be a critical skill.
Margarita Gurri:What's the secret to facilitation?
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:So I chuckled because I, I teach facilitation skills, and I always say it's more of an art than science. There is a science. There's a science but it's like flying a plane like you got it. You just have to keep doing it and get putting yourself in situations. But I would say that the best facilitators are the best listeners and the best at asking powerful questions. chins.
Yonason Goldson:Could you define the term? How would you define the word facilitate
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:facilitator is someone who can lead a group to a specific goal? Where they actually feel like they got there themselves. So in a way a great facilitator is is almost like disappearing? They are not they're not the one who's taking all the credit. Like people
Yonason Goldson:say the best CEO is the one who does nothing.
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:Yeah. And actually the group. Yeah, the group feels like they got there themselves. So, but actually, the facilitator had a huge role in that. But that's how you know, it's great facilitation when people feel that way. The rabbi
Margarita Gurri:has started a new panel, I'm dropping in the gray. And he invites interesting topics to be discussed by a panel of three. And Rob, I think you do a great job of facilitating.
Yonason Goldson:Thank you. By the right, yes. Do you have to do too much?
Margarita Gurri:Well, you know, isn't that the trivet that you find interesting people who are the more conference that they have, they're more than willing to support each other.
Yonason Goldson:I haven't noted psychologist on my show reasonably.
Margarita Gurri:Oh, yeah. I hear she was fabulous. She was She was a lovely scarf. That was fun. Well, it's getting I think time for the word of the day. And when we come back from the word of the day, that's been inspired by Eugene raid, we've been asked to final words of wisdom. And your next adventures, Rabbi.
Yonason Goldson:Well, as often happens, I had several words of the day to choose from,
Margarita Gurri:I'm shocked.
Yonason Goldson:But not appalled. Never appalled. And the word I'm going to choose is saunter, which is a word that we're fairly familiar with, right to stroll. But there's some discussion about the origins of the word saunter. So way back in the Middle Ages, people used to go on pilgrimage to the Holy Land. And when people in the villages through which they passed, asked where they were going, they would reply, and please pardon my French, Allah sent out to the Holy Land. And so they became known as sun terrors or saunters. So when did the Renaissance come into existence, right, it was the emerging from the Middle Ages, which were still in many ways, an extension of the Dark Ages. And people were still still stuck in, in in various forms of backwardness and ignorance and sort of calcified in the way of life. And what was the Renaissance, it was an enlightenment, it was a reawakening literally, it, it allowed for the potential, the human potential that had been locked away, to start to emerge. And so we talked about going to the Holy Land, the Holy Land, for me, the Holy Land is literal, but the oil, they can also be triggered in the Promised Land, the goal that we all want to reach the place we all want to, to attain and achieve. And in business, that is a company where all of the what do we call the stakeholders, they all want, they're all fulfilled, they all feel their contributors, they're all releasing their creative energy, they all feel aligned with that mission. And a renaissance leader, as you've laid it out, Jean Marie is one who can bring out that potential in a way that really makes an organization shine and glow and
Margarita Gurri:radiate. And they must have hired Jean Marie. They got there. So let's
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:go. Huh? That's beautiful.
Margarita Gurri:I love that. Rob. I see. You know, he always brings in some wonderful things and look what you inspired in the man. Right? That's good. All right. So final words of wisdom and an adventure that you are looking forward to.
Jean Marie DiGiovanna:Ah, so final words of wisdom is get curious. Stay curious, stay curious. Continue to come from a place of serving. Because when we do that all of our attention goes over there. And really focuses on bringing more of that humanity out into the world. Event. Did you want to say something? No. Okay. Adventure Well, I I'm on an adventure right now, actually. So I spend part of my time in the states part of my time in Europe and part of my time is Southeast Asia depending on where my clients are. And so I am currently in Europe right now. And my adventure is I was at a conference in Croatia. So I continue to work from Croatia, with my clients from who are all over the all over the world. And and then next month, I head to Stockholm, where I used to live and work 25 years ago with CTP, the company that you mentioned, way back, and we'll have a reunion and get some do some work over there. So super excited about that.
Margarita Gurri:Wow, that that is that is absolutely wonderful.
Yonason Goldson:And when you when you talk about curiosity, going to different places, meeting different people, putting ourselves in different environments. That's a way that we, you know, in a sense, we force ourselves to be curious, by by engaging the unfamiliar. And then that's really the best way for us to grow as human beings and contribute to the growth of the communities that we live in. So thank you to the Marines, for sharing your wisdom with us and inspiring us and for all the wonderful work that you do.
Unknown:must talk to your doctor, what's
Yonason Goldson:the last word?
Margarita Gurri:My final word is looking at the two of you. I think everyone needs to ask the following question. What outrageous goal is lurking in my awareness that I have forgotten to attend to. And that's what I'm going to leave you with? Something you think might be too expensive, too much time not doable, ridiculous, whatever. And maybe that's not the goal you're going to do, but maybe it'll help inspire the goal. That is your next big adventure. So that's all I have to say about that. So thank you, Jean Marie. Thank you, Robin. Wish you all well in the audience. This is the route by industry. And stay tuned for more episodes. Thank you.
Unknown:Thank you for listening to the rabbi and the shrimp everyday ethics unscripted to book Dr. Red Shoe, Dr. Margarita Gregory or Rabbi Jonas and Goldson as speakers or advisors for your organization, contact them at the rabbi and the shrink.com. This has been a doctor Red Shoe production