The Rabbi and The Shrink

Archive Episode #33 Daryl Davis- Hate and Harmony

June 23, 2022 Rabbi Yonason Goldson and Dr. Margarita Gurri, CSP Season 1
The Rabbi and The Shrink
Archive Episode #33 Daryl Davis- Hate and Harmony
Show Notes Transcript

Why are we reluctant to "walk across the cafeteria" to start a conversation?

What is the soundtrack to your life?

Why don't books and history tell the whole story, and where should we turn to get it?

These and other critical questions for building a harmonious world are addressed when award-winning musician and race reconciliator Daryl Davis joins The Rabbi and the Shrink.

https://www.daryldavis.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/daryl-davis-5226b24/

1:00 Music is a bridge

The benefit of a global perspective

Legal desegregation took years to take effect

Attacked for being a Cub Scout?

Learning about racism at age 10

How can you hate me if you don’t know me?


7:30 Responding to injustice and hate with genuine curiosity

Breadth of experience provides perspective to moderate our responses


10:00 Books and histories did not explain hate

Meeting the head of the American Nazi Party as a high school student

The coming race war?

“Joining” the Nazi rally before the White House

The “rationalism” of white supremacy


18:00 What happens when whites become the minority in the U.S.?

What does the fear of that do to people?

Charleston, PIttsburgh, El Paso


22:30 A chance encounter with the KKK

Here was the answer to the question


28:00 We have to know who we are

Exposure to different cultures and ideologies make us broader

The five values all humans want:

Love, respect, to be heard, to be treated fairly, we want those values for our families

A missed opportunity for dialogue is a missed opportunity for conflict resolution


33:00  Meeting the Imperial Wizard of the KKK

The “noise”

We all feel fear of the unknown, we are all relieved when that fear is removed

We hate what we don’t understand because it frightens us

Awareness of our collective ignorance can bring us together

Education cures ignorance, which cures fear, which cures violence


48:00 What can we all do to transcend and eliminate hate?

Spend time listening to people to learn who they are

Debate doesn’t bring people together; getting to know one another as human beings does


53:45 Music contains the key

Harmony allows our differences to become a source of strength and unity


57:00 The word of the day:  liminal

of, relating to, or situated at a sensory threshold : barely perceptible or capable of eliciting a response

What if life had background music?

Any moment can offer the opportunity to change our lives and our world

Margarita Gurri: 0:03

Welcome to the episode of the rabbi in the shrink. I'm Dr. Margarita Gurri the shrink. And here's my favorite Rabbi

Yonason Goldson: 0:11

Yonason Goldson.

Margarita Gurri: 0:13

And the rabbi and I are here. We're so thrilled to have with us. Daryl Davis. Welcome Daryl Davis. Thank you. Thank you both. Pleasure to be here. We were just delighted. Daryl Davis became a part of my household discussions when I was growing up is two years younger than I. And still, he was making such an impact on the world, that he was a part of our discussions, especially on Sundays, when we talked about social causes. And why is he known not only because he's a Grammy Award winning musician, he has gone from blues and Boogie woogie, which by the way, I love your stuff, and blues and rock and roll to becoming known as the guy who became friends with and eventually influenced the KKK. So tell us briefly the overview of your journey from blues and Boogie, Boogie Woogie to somehow changes in the world of kkk. How did that happen?

Daryl Davis: 1:12

Well, basically, you know, music is a bridge use, it certainly is the universal language taking note, too, as soon as the wild beast and all that kind of thing. But I, you know, I'm 63, as you pointed out, and I grew up as a child of parents in the US foreign service. So I started traveling abroad, at a very early age, and at the age of three, in 1961. And how the State Department works, the American Embassy works, you know, you go to a country for two years, and then you come back home, you're here for a little while in the States, and then you go back overseas to another country for two years. So every time you know, every two years, I was moving. And overseas, my classrooms, my first exposure to school was overseas, I did kindergarten, first grade, third grade, fifth grade, seventh grade. And so and then I came back home, but my first exposure to school was overseas, and my classrooms were filled with kids from all over the world, because anybody who had an embassy, wherever we were assigned, all of their children were in the same school. So to me, that was the norm, you know, that was my first exposure to a class, if you opened the door to my classroom and stuck your head in, you would say this looks like a United Nations of little children, because that's exactly what it was. So I didn't know any different. And but every time I come home, there'd be a difference, because I would be either in all black schools, or black and white schools, meaning they're still segregated, or the newly integrated. And this was in the 1960s. Right, just because desegregation was ruled by the Supreme Court in 1954. did not mean it happened in 1954. It took years for, you know, for it to, to evolve. And so, one time we came back, I was 10 years old in the fourth grade 1968. And I was in a black and white and integrated school, but there were only two black kids in the whole school was elementary school, myself in fourth grade, and a little black girl and in second grade. So you know, most of my friends are fourth and fifth graders. Consequently, they all work white. And many of my male friends were members of the cub scouts. And they invited me to join. So I joined the scouts. We had a parade, in which I was the only black participant and everything was going fine. The streets were blocked off the scouts, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, brownies, Cub Scouts, four H club, you know, we're all in this parade. And the sidewalks were lined with nothing but white people waving and cheering and smiling, having a good time, until we got to a certain point, when suddenly I was getting hit with some bottles and rocks and soda pop cans by just a few of white spectators off to my right, mixed in with the larger crowd. And I I had never experienced anything like this. I had no clue why they were doing this. I thought I had done something wrong. I thought, you know, they didn't like the scouts. You know, I didn't realize it was me until my scout leaders came running over and huddled over me with their own bodies and shielded me. And I kept saying why are they doing this? Why are they doing this? What did I do? And all they would do is kind of shush me and rushed me along, telling me everything's gonna be okay, keep moving, keep moving. And so then it rancher my question. Well, when I got home at the end of the day, my parents were cleaning me up and putting band aids on me and inquiring as to how did I fall down and get all scraped up. And I told them I didn't fall down. I told him exactly what it happened. And for the first time in my life, you know a lot of people find this to be unbelievable, but it's true. For the first time in my life. My parents are Plain to me what racism was at the age of 10. I had never heard the word racism, I had no clue what they were talking about. Let's see, I didn't grow up with it. You know, I was I was around people from all over the world, we all got along, we played together, we work together, we have slumber parties, you know, racism was not within our sphere. So when my parents were telling me this, my 10 year old brain could not process this. Because the people who are doing this, to me did not look any different than my other white friends, whether they're my white friends from overseas, my little Swedish, Danish, Australian, French, German friends, or My fellow Americans from the embassy, or, for that matter, My fellow Americans right here, in my own country that were doing this. So what my parents were saying did not make any sense. So therefore, my parents were not telling me the truth. That's a logical deduction, right? If you can't justify it, then it must not be true. So I did not believe my parents. Now, here's a strange thing, because I'm an only child. And so I always relied on my parents, if I had a problem or a question that would either give me the solution or the answer, or provide me with the means by which I could derive it myself. My parents never lied to me, you know, and whenever I wanted them, I knew I could rely on them. But this day, something was wrong with them. They weren't they were not, you know, being level with me, because people didn't do things like that. And I didn't understand it. So I didn't believe my parents. About a month, month and a half, two months later, Martin Luther King was assassinated That same year, on April, the fourth, and every major city in this country, burned to the ground, in the name of violence, destruction, racism, this new word that I had learned. So now I realized, my parents had not lied, this phenomenon, this new word that I just learned couple months back does exist. But what I didn't understand was, why, why does it exist? Why are people like that? So I formed a question in my mind at that age of 10, which was how can you hate me? When you don't even know me? And for the next 53 years, I've been looking for the answer to that question.

Yonason Goldson: 7:26

So the pause button for just a second, surely, he said two things, really, that really resonated. And one is, you could have reacted in any number of ways. You could have reacted with anger, with bitterness with some kind of violence, or revenge. And instead, you you responded with genuine curiosity. And doesn't that really, I mean, can can you trace that to what makes you different, that you have now embarked on this arc, that has really seen so much tremendous progress in this issue? Because it all started with a place of curiosity.

Daryl Davis: 8:09

You know, yeah. You know, people say, oh, is courageous, courageous? No, no, it's more curiosity than courage. And I think, you know, to your point, I think because I had not grown, perhaps, I had not grown up with it. So it didn't, you know, build and fester, you know, like a pressure cooker. And then, you know, if you don't release the valve, it explodes. And, you know, hostility or whatever, perhaps had I not done all that travel, perhaps had the only white people I encountered, were here in my own country, and they treated me like the guys on the sidewalk. Maybe that would have become the straw that broke the camel's back, because I don't have so much of it. And I would have exploded, I'm just guessing, but because I saw people who look like them, I grew up around all kinds of different people. Um, I realized this does not make any sense. Racism does not make any sense, you know, in and of itself. So our anti semitism, discrimination does not make any sense. And I think, because I grew up in a, in a diplomatic family, you know, my father's job as a diplomat was he was assigned from this country to foreign countries to create better relationships between the foreign country and the United States. So I was around all kinds of people diplomacy and all that as a young child. While I may not have understood it, at the time, you know, I was I was inundated with it. And, and, you know, I learned how to be polite to people and all this other kind of stuff.

Margarita Gurri: 9:50

So amazing. Well, I've seen you in lots of different interviews, and I want you to tell the brief story of how you came from That curiosity, that wonderful question to somehow reaching out to the KKK guy. What? Tell us about the bridge to that? Okay.

Daryl Davis: 10:11

So, you know, from from that experience in 1968 and on through my teenage years and adulthood, you know, I have bought books on black supremacy, white supremacy, anti semitism, the Ku Klux Klan, the Nazis in Germany, the neo nazis over here. And all of that did not explain why people hate explained that they do. But they did not give it a satisfactory explanation to me as to why they do. And even when I would ask people, you know why people like this? I don't I don't get it. Well, there are some people just like, that's just the way it is. That's not a good enough reason. No, right. Okay, so in 1974, I was here. I was in high school, I was in 10th grade. And we had a class called the P o. TC, which stood for problems of the 20th century. And it was a class for seniors, 12th graders, I was taking it as a sophomore, and our teacher, fantastic teacher, he'd always bring in these very interesting people to address the seniors. You should controversial people. And this one day, he brought in the head of the American Nazi Party. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And just to give a little background, the American Nazi Party was formed right here, about 25 minutes from where I'm sitting. It was formed in a place called Arlington, Virginia, right across the Potomac River from Washington DC, by a fellow named George Lincoln Rockwell. And, and in fact, I would later have one of Rockwell's daughters as a teacher. She had long since disowned her father and distanced herself from him. But anyway, George Lincoln Rockwell was a big proponent of the ideology of Adolf Hitler. And I was always getting into it with Martin Luther King. Well, George Lincoln Rockwell was murdered by one of his own on Nazi members of his American Nazi Party, he got into an argument with the diamond sidewalk outside of a laundromat. And the guy, you know, shot him. But anyway, his right hand guy, a guy named Matt Cole, kayo, EHL, took over the organization. And his right hand guy, Martin Kerr, were the ones who came to my school in 1974. And these two guys stood up at the front of my class, and espouse the views of white supremacy. Now, you could never do that. today. We're talking about the 1970s. Right? So I was sitting there listening to this guy, and Matt Cole pointed his finger at me, and at another black guy in the classroom, and said, we're going to ship you back to Africa. And they went like this. And all you Jews out there are going back to Israel. And I just sat there looking at this color, where is this man coming from? And I didn't say anything to him. You know, my, your, your we're the same generation. We were raised to have respect for our elders. You know, if they were older than us, you know, they were figures of authority. They were our elders. Whether we believe them or not, didn't matter. We respected them. So I just sat down, listen to the guy. Well, one of my classmates piped up and said, what happens if they don't go? And Matt Cole said, I'll never forget this. He said, they have no choice. If they do not leave voluntarily, they will be exterminated in the upcoming race war. That was the first time I ever heard the term race war. What is this man talking about? And later that day, I was standing beside my locker. And I was only one of the hallway. And here comes Matt Cole and Martin Kerr. They're leaving the school. They've been there all day for other prtc classes. And they had to pass by me. They paused about three feet from me. They didn't say a word to me, but they just like, you know, glared at me and then sneered and began laughing at me. And then they continue down the hall and out the door. And, you know, I had that was it was a trigger for me. I had to find out more about this. I graduated high school Two years later, and 76 and went on to college where I majored in music. But while music became my profession, I'm learning about race relations became my obsession. And so, two years after I graduated high school in 1980, college, I go back to 1982 years later, 1982 um, I was, uh, I found out about an unpublicized, neo nazi American Nazi party rally that was gonna take place across the street from the White House in a place called Lafayette Park in Washington, DC. That's where you go, you want to protest anything? And it was, it was gonna be unpublished So nobody would know knew about it, other than those people that they told. So even the police didn't know about it. So I found out about it back then you could drive up and down the 1600 blocks of Pennsylvania Avenue, which is where the White House is. But you can't do that today. It's all blocked off just pedestrian traffic. So I went down there early, I parked my car, and I waited. And this van came, and it was a black van. And about 13 to 15. guys got out these, these were members of the American Nazi Party. Who did I see, Matt Cole and Martin Kerr are the same guys from my high school, right? So I waited, and Matt Cole got his people all lined up on the sidewalk facing the White House. And there was nothing to identify them as members of the American Nazi Party, no swastikas or SS and Sydney is stopple uniforms, just black suits. And they stood there silently facing the White House. And so people are like walking by lunchtime, and nobody knows who they are. And there are other protesters in the park nuclear weapons and descend the other going on abortion. And so I recognize Matt Paul and Martin Sure. I figured I have to confront Matt Cole now, because it wasn't that I was afraid of him before. It was just that I was a child who was an adult, he was my elder. I had to respect him. But now I'm two years out of out of college. And yes, he's still my elder. But the dynamics have changed. In the past. It was child to adult. Now it's adult to adult so I can confront him. So I walked right up to him. And I said, Matt Cole, he like jumped back in the line, like, Who is this black person calling my name, you know? And he says, Do I know you? And I said, Well, you spoke at my high school. And he said, What high school would that day and I said Thomas Wooten High School in Rockville, Maryland. He looked at me goes, Oh, yes, yes, yes, I remember you. That was a long time ago. I said, Yes. Eight years ago. Do you recall what you told me? He said, Yes. He goes, how can I help you? I said, Well, I'm still here. He says, Well, I can see that. How can I help you? I said, Well, I want to know who the heck gives you the authority to make permanent travel arrangements for me. He says, What's your name? I said, Darrell Davis, he put his hand out, he shook my hand. And he held my hand in his hand with his right hand. And he took his left hand with his finger and shook it in my face. He says, Mr. Davis, you have to understand one thing. It is in the interest of your race, the black race to be a strong race. And you cannot be a strong race, unless you are a pure race. And you cannot be a pure race, if you are mistaken. ating with other races, it is in the interest of my race, the Aryan race, which is what he calls the white race, but to also be a strong race. And we are becoming a mongrel race, by mistake generating with mud races such as yours. So anybody who is a non arion is considered to be a mud race. And because you know that there's color in the skin. And he went on and on and on. And, you know, I was there, I wasn't there to beat him up. I was here to learn from him, like, you know, what is making him think this way? Because once I know that, perhaps I can address it. And so I thanked him, and I left later that year cake. Oh, I talked him for 1520 minutes.

Margarita Gurri: 18:25

Did you ask him anything else or say anything else?

Daryl Davis: 18:28

Yeah, you know, I figured well, how are you going to get everybody to leave? Oh, don't worry. Oh, yeah, the race war, he mentioned the race war again. And he told me something that I've never forgotten 2042 he mentioned this way back then, in 1982. And I followed that ever since 2042, is the year that this country will become 5050 50%, white 50% non white, for the first time in our history. Alright, this country was built on a two tier society, white supremacy at the top, and slavery at the bottom. And as we progress through the decades, we progress like this, perhaps like this, but never like this. Right? And it's well predicted it's been good for a long time. If you look at the the US Census every 10 years, the white population is decreasing. And people of color, Asians, Hispanics, blacks, etc. Like this. So by 2042 is gonna be 5050. between 2045 and 2050. For the first time, whites will become the minority in this country. Now, while today, there is a large percentage of the white population that has no problem with that, hey, you know, that's evolution. That's what happens no big deal. I don't have a problem with that. There is also a large swath of the population that does have a problem with that, because you know, when you have sat on the throne of power for four 100 years, you don't want to get off. You look at you look at this last guy who only sat on the throne of power for four years. He still thinks he's, you know, he wants to overturn the election. But, uh, you know, so that's what happens. And Matt Cole was telling me about this in 1982. You know, so 2042 is only two decades from now, you know, we will live to see it. So,

Margarita Gurri: 20:31

God willing,

Daryl Davis: 20:32

oh, yeah. And so what's happening is, you know, when I first started this, this journey, if you will, there were there was only the Ku Klux Klan, some neo nazi groups and white power skinheads. Those were the Those were the main groups, the Klan being the biggest at the time. Today, you got the Klan, the neo nazis, the white power skinheads, the alt right, the oathkeepers the proud boys the Boogaloo boys, the three percenters on all these different races, groups, National Alliance, etc. And they all are saying, Come join us, come join us, you know, we're gonna take our country back, we're gonna build that wall, we're gonna make America great again, you know, we're gonna send those people back to where they belong, all this kind of stuff. And people out of fear, are going and joining these groups to take our country back. But when the group fails, in that mission to take their country back, some of these individuals get frustrated. And they say, you know what, if the Klan can't do it, or the neo nazis can't do it, I'll do it myself. And that's when they walk into a black church, in Charleston, South Carolina, and boom, boom, boom, shoot up nine black people conducting Bible study, or into the tree of life synagogue in Pittsburgh, and murder 11 Jewish people, or the Walmart in El Paso, or the Sikh, Indian temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, these people are called lone wolves. And as we get closer and closer to 2042, we're going to see more and more of these lone wolves. Because they're becoming unhinged. And like for you know, if you remember, just a few months back, there was a group out in Michigan, that was, yeah, they were trying to kidnap and kill the governor, right? We have intelligence agencies that have operatives that fit the profile, who can join those kinds of groups undercover,

Margarita Gurri: 22:27

let me get you to a slightly different place, although that's a fascinating story. What I'm especially interested in is for you to share them how it happened, that such a gentleman as you would become friends with a guy from the KKK, and then become an A world, influencer, in the world of listening with respect.

Daryl Davis: 22:50

Okay, so that happened. Um, I was playing in a country, country music ban. and country music had made a, you know, had become popular again. And that was the only black person in the band and usually the only black person where we would play. So the band had played in this bar before. It's my first time and you know, in the, in this bar, it was known as an all white bar, no signs that said that, but the reputation was, and everybody knew it. And black people did not go in. Well, here I was in the place. And, you know, we played our first set, took a break, and a white gentleman came up to me and put his arm around my shoulder. Now, I don't know anybody in this place right? Now he's smiling at me and saying, Man, I sure like your all's music. I said, Thank you. I shook his hand. And he says, you know, this is the first time I ever heard a black man play piano like Jerry Lee Lewis. And I was not offended. But I was rather taken aback that he did not know the black origin of Jody lewis's piano style. It comes from black blues and Boogie Woogie piano players. And so I said, Well, he learned from the same place I did. I told him just that. He's really good at that. I never heard no black man play count like that. I said, Look, man, Julius, a good friend of mine. He's told me himself. He didn't believe that either. But he was so fascinated that he wants to invite me back to his table and buy me a drink. I don't drink alcohol. But I had a cranberry juice, he paid the waitress, he took his glass, and he drinks my glass and cheers me. And then he says, you know, this is the first time I ever sat down, had a drink with a black man. And now I'm like totally mystified. Because at that point in my life, I have sat down with 10s of 1000s of white people and had a beverage a meal, a conversation. How is it that this guy who is at least a decade and a half older than me, had never sat down with somebody outside of his race? So innocently, I asked him why. And he stared down at the table didn't answer me. I asked him again. And his buddies sitting next to him, elbowed him and said, Tell him, tell him tell him. I said, Tell me now. I'm furious. He says, I'm a member of the Ku Klux Klan. Well, I burst out laughing, because I, you know, it was surreal. I didn't believe that, you know, why would a Klansmen come up and embrace me all I know about the plan. That's not what they do. And I got every book written on the plan. And I never heard of that in any of my books. So this guy's joking. So I'm laughing, he goes inside his pocket, pulls out his wallet, and hands me his Klan membership card, I recognize the plan insignia, which is a red circle with a white cross, and a red blood drop in the center of the cross things for real, so I stopped laughing. I gave it back to him. And we talked about the plan and different things. But the guy was very, very friendly, and very curious about me. Now, I can tell you, I can tell you, no uncertain terms. If I was not a musician, and I just walked in there just to have a good time dance and carry on, listen to music, I probably would have gotten into a fight. I can tell you that for sure. But I was here doing a job playing music that they liked, etc. So anyway, he gave me his phone number, because he was so fascinated with me that he wanted to come back. Whenever I was coming back here again, he said, he'll call me, let me know when you're going to be back here. I want to bring some friends, meaning Klansmen and class women know what there's. And so I said, Okay, I call him every six weeks, and he show up. And he bring Klansmen and class women in regular clothes, not with a robin hood. And they'd watch me play. On the break, I'd go over to their table, say hello. Some of them were curious, they'd hang there to talk to me or meet me. Others would get up and scurry across the room was gonna they want nothing to do with me other than Look at me. And so that went on for a while, and then I quit that band. And then some years later, it dawned on me, Darryl, you blew it. The answer to your question? How can you hate me? When you don't even know me? That's been plaguing you since the age of 10. It fell right into your lap, you don't even realize it? Who better to ask that question knows, than someone who would go so far as to join an organization that has over 100 year history of practicing hating people who don't look like them, or who don't believe as they believe. So I thought, you know, I need to get a hold of that guy, and maybe get him to fix me up with some of the clan leaders. And I write a book, because there have been no books written at that point. And still, by a black author on the Ku Klux Klan, from doing in person interviews, there have been a couple books written by black authors talking about how they escaped a lynching by the Klan in the 1930s in the 1940s, but not from sitting down face to face with their perspective lectures. So that's what I wanted to do. And that's how that journey started.

Margarita Gurri: 27:54

Wow, that that's an amazing journey. So where are we now? So not everyone has your courage or kindness or resources, emotionally and socially. I mean, that was very, you've had a unique upbringing. And I think that's wonderful. And I'm laughing because here we have an Orthodox Jewish rabbi, we have a Cuban Catholic shrink. And then we have this international musician, who is a race relations and communication expert. Wow. What a mix right?

Daryl Davis: 28:32

date, indeed. But you know, but it goes to show that you know, we all we all have this ability. You know, we all have this you know, but we have to know who we are. My my travel it's you know, I i've been now when you combine my trip, my childhood travel with my parents, now with my musical career, touring around the world, things like that. When you combine those two sets of travels, I've been to 57 countries on six, wow. And that does not make me a better human being than somebody else, by any means. No. what it has done is it has given me a broader perspective. It is it is a exposed me to different cultures and ideologies. And all of that has helped impact me but I can tell you something. No matter how far I go from my own country, the United States, whether it's right next door to Canada, or to Mexico, or halfway around the globe, no matter how different people may be who I encounter, they don't look like me, they don't speak as I do, they don't worship as I do, or practice my culture. I always conclude that everyone I've met is a human being. And as such, we all want the same basic five core values in our lives. We all want to be loved. We all want to be respected. We all want to be heard. We want to be treated fairly. And we want the same things for our family as anybody else. Monster they are a family. And if we can remember to employ those five core values or any of those values, when we find ourselves in a culture, or a society in which we may be unfamiliar, whether it's halfway around the world or right within our own country, if we employ some of those values, I will guarantee you, our navigation will be much more positive and much more smooth. And it's those values that I have employed in the culture of white supremacy. Is everybody going to change? No, there will be people who will go to their grave, being hateful, violent and racist. But even if somebody like that is willing to sit down and have a conversation, there is the opportunity to plant a seed with it. But the key is to come back and water that seed, because you have to nurture it so that it grows. You know, my my favorite quote of all time, is by Mark Twain. It's called the travel quote, and Mark Twain said, travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness. And many of our people need to sorely on these accounts, broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating and one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. That is so true.

Margarita Gurri: 31:21

That That is true. So, Robach we ask you to comment, but let me read john tensas. Comment first. sad that our country is still sort divided. They're all I wish everyone could have your curiosity and string communication solves problems. Way to go.

Daryl Davis: 31:36

Thank you, john. You know, a missed opportunity for dialogue is a missed opportunity for conflict resolution, he was so right job.

Margarita Gurri: 31:44

Absolutely. Rabbi, always love to hear the rabbi's input

Yonason Goldson: 31:48

is one of the one of the ideas that the doctor and I found we had in common. I talked about in my TED Talk, that when we put labels on people, not only don't we get to know them, but we actually don't get to know ourselves. Because it's through discovering differences, that we do broaden ourselves. And traveling and communicating is so critical to that widening that enlightening experience. And this one point in your TED talk really brought tears to my eyes. And that's why I was so excited to have the opportunity to have you with us. But you get to the point where you first met I think his name is Roger Kelly. Yeah, the Imperial Wizard of the KKK. And he didn't you arranged a meeting. He didn't know he was going to be being a black man. Which Nevertheless, he apparently he was somewhat respectful of you. He was straightforward about his views, and you spoke for some time. And then you heard a noise. Now, when when I watched your TED talk, I had to rewind. Is that still a term? And listen, that story over again. I couldn't process it the first time. But it became my favorite part of the talk. Thank you. Sure, actually, that for us.

Daryl Davis: 33:11

Absolutely. So my secretary, set up this meeting, I gave her Mr. Kelly's phone number I had acquired it from a former Klansmen. In fact, the guy from the from the bar, he and I became friends, the one who compared me to Julie Lewis, but he only gave it to me on the condition that I not revealed to Mr. Kelly, where I got his contact information. And he warned me he said Daryl do not fool with Roger Keller, he will kill you. I mean, this guy was genuinely concerned about my safety. And so I said, well, that's the whole reason why I need to see Mr. Kelly, why would he kill me just because I'm black. And I contacted him. I mean, come on, I need to understand what's going on up here. So anyway, my secretary is white. And I had her put now I only mentioned that Not that it matters to me. But it's important part of my story. I could have called Mr. Kelly myself, but I did not want him to detect in my voice, oh, this is a black guy. I'm not talking to him, click, and then my whole project would have ended before it ever got started. But I knew if Mary called him he would know by her voice that she's white. And I knew enough about the by the mentality, that he would not automatically think that this white woman on the other end of the line is working for a black man, especially a black man who's writing a book on the plan, because they didn't exist, you know. So, you know, that would that would maybe up my chances of him agreeing to the meeting. And then of course, when we met, when we meet, obviously he could figure it out that I'm black, right. So at any event, she called him and he agreed to do the meeting. So we set it up for a motel room. And on a Sunday afternoon at 515. And I'm married and I went and got the room several hours in advance. I gave her some money to go down the hall and get soda pop out of the machine, put it in the Ice Bucket filled with ice get it cold, because I want to be hospitable. You know, regardless of his ideology, I was going to treat him like a human being off Sorry, I'm a cold beverage. And so she got all that set. And I had no idea what this man was going to do when he showed up. He saw me when he talked to me. We said my talking to you and walk away. What do you attack me? Or what do you come in the room, but I'm going to be prepared and offer him a cold drink. So right on time, and knock on the door, and Mary hops up and runs around the corner and opens the door. I'm seated in the in the room, you really can't see who's in the rooms in the hallway and you walk around the corner. So in the body guard, and he's wearing military camouflage, that same red circle white cross blood drop patch on his on his chest, the initials kkk right here, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan embroidered on his cap, and a semi automatic handgun in his holster. He comes in, and he freezes when he sees me. And Mr. Kelly was wearing a dark blue suit and tie and had not realized that when the Nighthawk turned the corner, he stopped. So Mr. Kelly had yet to come around the corner. When he came around the corner, he smacked into the ninth house back and knocked the guy forward. Now they both are tripping and stumbling around, trying to regain their balance. I'm looking all around the room. And I'm just sitting there looking at them like, wow, you know, there's a lot of apprehension in their face. And I can see what they were thinking they were thinking, the desperate give us the wrong room number, or is this an ambush? You know? So I stood up and I went like this to show I had nothing in my hands. And I walk forward, my right hand out. Hi, Mr. Kelly. I'm Darrell Davis. He shook my hand. The Bodyguard they call my Nighthawk shook my hand. And I said, Come on, and please have a seat. So Mr. Kevin sat down, and I thought stood at attention to his right. I showed him some ID and all this. And then I sat down, and we conducted the interview, I had a little black bag, canvas bag beside me, which contained a blank two sets of recording on cassette recorder, and and the Bible, because the Ku Klux Klan claims to be a Christian organization. And they claim that the Bible preaches racial separation. Now, I'm a Christian, I read the Bible. I've never seen that in there. So I'm prepared when he gets to that point, and letting me know, I'm going to pull up my Bible and say here, Mr. Kelly, please show me chapter in verse where it says blacks and whites must be separate. So every time he'd make some biblical reference, or my cassette tape ran out, I'd reach that reach down and pull out a fresh cassette tape or the Bible. Every time I reached down, the buddy guard reach up to his gun, he never drew it, but he had his hand on the butt of the gun. And I understood that because that's his job. He does not know me, he does not know what's in my bag. His job is to protect his boss. So I got that. So after about an hour of this, maybe a little less, the buddy guard, relax, I went in and out of the bag, he realized there was no threat he did, you know, move for his gun. A little after an hour. Mr. Kelly and I were just talking like we are right now. And out of the blue, there was a very fast, very short noise like a that was it. And because it did not belong in the conversation, we all jumped. And I just knew that Roger Kelly had made that noise. How did I know that? Because I didn't make it. So if you didn't do something, you blame somebody else. And so I'm blaming Roger Kelly. And I have all kinds of things running through my head. You know, what did I just do to piss off this Klansmen? And then the other Klansmen telling me Don't fool with Roger Kelly, he'll kill you. You know, I got all this going on in my head. And simultaneously, I jumped out of my seat, I hit the table, because I was getting ready to dive across the table literally, and become violent. I was going to attack Mr. Kelly, and the buddy guard, I was gonna grab them both and slam them down to the ground and remove the bodyguards gun. Because I was not armed. My secretary was not armed. The only person who I knew for sure, who was armed was the body guard, you can see his his his gun, you know, right there on his on his physical body. And I didn't know what this is all about. You know, Mr. Kelly had made some weird noise. And I thought, Oh, you know, something's getting ready to happen. I better protect myself and protect my secretary. So when you when you when you fear that your life is in danger, you go into what's called survival mode. And in survival mode, you basically can only do one of four things. Some people they just pass out, they think, because the fear is so great, the brain cannot process it and the brain shuts down and they cash out. I don't do that. Other people, they their muscles will tighten up and they'll start shaking and they can't move. You know, you can be kicking them punching them but they're like this. That's called paralysis by fear. I don't do that either. The third thing people will do is to run away. That is the best option as quickly as you can separate yourself from the source of the fear get away from it, seek seek safety. That's exactly What I would have done, but I didn't have that choice because you cannot outrun a bullet in a motel room, you know, you can find right there. So the last option you have is to do what's called a preemptive strike. Get them before they get you. And that's what I was on my way to do. And when I came up out of my chair hit the table, I was looking right into Mr. Kelly's eyes. I didn't say a word to him. I knew he could read my eyes. My eyes were clearly saying to him, what did you just do? But the interesting thing was, I'm looking at his eyes and his eyes, were asking me the same question. What did I just do. And the buddy guard had his hand on his gun as usual, looking back and forth between both of us like what the either one of y'all just do. And Mary was sitting on top of the bar, at the bar, the the dresser, because there were no more chairs in the room, she realized what had happened. And she began explaining it to us when it happened again, and we all began laughing. What happened was, the Ice Bucket was soda in it was sitting next to her, the ice in the bucket had begun melting, and the cans of soda was shifting down the ice. That was it. Somebody almost got shot over an ice cube. That's how crazy this is, you know, but in that, you know, and that we all laughed, you know, once you know, we married, explained it. And then we heard it in context. Um, but that explains two things, that we all are human. Because in that same, no matter how different our ideologies are, in that same moment of that noise, we all felt the same fear that our lives were in danger. And then when the fear was addressed, we all felt relief. And we all were laughing. We're heard of a Klansmen and a black man laughing together. Human humanity, we are human beings. Okay,

Yonason Goldson: 41:58

so remember, what if that wouldn't have happened for me? What if that would not have happened? Do you somebody would have done hurt somebody as well? What if What if the sound have not happened? But no sound? Do you think your relationship with Roger Kelly would have developed?

Daryl Davis: 42:16

Yeah, and we want to develop but maybe not as quickly?

Yonason Goldson: 42:20

Have, we realized how foolish we all are? Right? Because of our own ignorance, our own suspicion, our own uncertainty, our own insecurity, this benign sound can set us almost on the course for destruction.

Daryl Davis: 42:36

Right? It galvanized us in the end, you know? So that was a seed planted and how I explained it is this the lesson taught that day? I won't say that it was learned that day, the learning will come later. But it was taught that day is this all because some foreign and we can highlight underscore underline the word foreign entity of which we were ignorant, that being the bucket of ice cans of soda. I mean, we knew it was there, but we long forgotten about it. Because we're engrossed in conversation, all because some foreign entity of which we were ignorant, entered into our little comfort zone via the noise that it made. We became fearful of one another. Ignorance breeds fear, we fear those things which were ignorant. If we do not keep that fear in check, that fear in turn will escalate and breed hatred, because we hate the things that frighten us. If we don't keep the hatred in check, the hatred escalates, and causes anger, which breeds destruction. Because we want to destroy the things that we hate. Why? Because they frighten us. But guess what, at the end of the day, they may have been harmless and we were simply ignorant. So we saw that whole chain almost unraveled to completion. The last component being destruction had been had the bodyguard shot somebody, namely me on my secretary, or had I pounced across the table and hurt one of them, trying to get my secretary in me. So but we everybody here, everybody, I'm sure, tuning into this to this podcast, and certainly, the doctor and the Rabbi, You all saw exactly what I'm talking about four years ago, last week, August 12 2017, in Charlottesville, Virginia, at the big white supremacist rally there. On that day, there was a lot of ignorance in Charlottesville. There was a lot of fear in Charlottesville. There was hatred in Charlottesville, and what did it culminate in? It culminated in destruction, when a white supremacist got inside his vehicle, attempted to murder as many counter protesters as he could. by driving that car full force into the crowd. He succeeded in injuring 20 people and murdering one young lady named Heather hire ignorance breeds fear Fear breeds hatred, hatred breeds destruction. And the problem is with us how we address these, we we are not addressing it properly. we're more concerned with the destruction and the hatred and the fear. I say, put those things away, ignore them, forget about them. That's not the problem. What's destroyed is not coming back. So you might as well forget that. All right, we need to go. Those are symptoms, those are byproducts of the root cause, we need to go to the nucleus of the problem, then the nucleus is the ignorance. If you cure the ignorance, then there's nothing to fear was nothing to fear. There's nothing to hate and get angry about with nothing to hate and get angry about. There's nothing to destroy. The good news is there is a cure for ignorance. That cure is called education, and exposure. And that is what I'm providing to these people with whom I engage in conversation. I reduce that fear I, I alleviate that ignorance, and therefore, the you know, the hatred comes down. Those are byproducts. Why don't we focus, our attention, our finance, our money, our efforts, our energy, on the ignorance on educating and alleviating the ignorance, then those symptoms will go away?

Margarita Gurri: 46:22

Wow, that's Wow. I saw you on a talk show with Dr. Bernice King. And, and the KKK guy and a few other people, some pastor and

Daryl Davis: 46:36

what how that came about, you know, she had called and wanted me to come down and speak on one of the King Day, I talked about my work the plan, and I said, Well, how about if I bring a former clan leader? Sure. Hmm. I said, Well, she'd never done that before. But you know what? To her credit, she she walks the walk. She's just like her father would talk to anybody

Margarita Gurri: 46:58

go to you, sir.

Daryl Davis: 46:59

So do you so I brought Scott Shepherd that's who you're talking about?

Margarita Gurri: 47:03

God shepherd. I knew as Mr. Shepherd couldn't members first name. You know, the coolest thing about that whole thing is she made the statement that the the bottom line what we need to do with Dr. Martin Luther King said what you said many musicians who said it all those smart musicians were wise enough to ask you to play with them. Chuck Berry and Aretha being my two favorites. The whole idea is what's missing is and Mr. Shepard talked about. He grew up without love without enough love. And in order to find his place, he found a group full of hate, whether it's a game, or neo nazis, or whatever. And he found a hate filled group. And you all came up with a solution of love. So in the face of all this, sir, what do you suggest people? Do? We're talking to someone that boils our blood. We're not understanding someone, your secret weapon, was listening with respect. So talk about a few things we can do all of us to make this world a better place by what is the secret to listening with true curiosity?

Daryl Davis: 48:17

Okay, well, we spend way too much time in this country, you know, talking about the other person, or talking at the other person,

Margarita Gurri: 48:26

you know, it's all their fault. If they just think

Daryl Davis: 48:29

we all we'd all be good, maybe fine. But we talk past the other person, why would you spend five minutes talking with the other person, because in those five minutes, I will guarantee I don't care how far apart you are on the spectrum from each other. You're there's a big gap there, you spend five minutes, you will find something in common. And that gap is gonna narrow a little bit, you know, it's been another five minutes, you're gonna find more in common. And now you're at the point where you're in a relationship with that person, you may not agree with everything, but you're in a, you're in a relationship. And you keep on talking, you find more in common, and now you're heading towards a friendship. And at this point, the the trivial things that you don't have in common, such as a skin color, or if you worship at a church or synagogue, a mosque or a temple began to matter less and less. So you know, when two enemies are talking, they're not fighting, they're talking. They may be disagreeing, but let's say they're talking, it's when the conversation ceases, that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So we want to keep the conversation going. And, you know, I'm not advocating that that everybody out here, you know, go to a Klan rally or a neo nazi rally or whatever. No, I'm not saying that at all. You know, unless that's what you want to do, and you know how to do it. Some people, you know, they're not prepared for that. But there are things that we all can do. All right. I'm on the front line. If the front line is something that Unless you feel uncomfortable, that's fine. I get it. You can be on the backline. You can be on the sideline, you can be online.

Margarita Gurri: 50:07

What do they do?

Daryl Davis: 50:08

They offer support for those on the front lines that people know, they pass on messages, you know, things like that, that that kind of support is all needed a 360. So it's just like, you know, your favorite movie, you know, who starred in it. And you know why it was so good. And you know, the names of the actors, but it wasn't just them that made that movie great. And got an Oscar, how about the people behind the camera, the people who set up the stage and did the stunts, you don't know their names, but those are people on the back line on the sideline. And, of course, all the promo online, you know, so there are all kinds of support roles that make the whole thing great. And nobody, nobody is any less important to the people on the front line. I'm telling you,

Margarita Gurri: 50:57

Rabbi,

Yonason Goldson: 50:58

I lived for nine years in Israel, and Israel, we have all kinds of challenges. Some external and many internal, there's a tremendous amount of tension between the religious and the non religious, there is a tremendous amount of tension between the Jewish population and the Arab poppy population. And there have been groups that have actually organized conversations ring, the religious and the religious and the religious, not together, not to talk about religion. Not to debate, not to discuss, but simply to get to know each other, bring together Jews and Arabs, not to talk politics, not to talk, whose version of history is correct, but simply to get to know each other as human beings. And it seems to me, that's what I hear from you. You didn't set out to convince

Daryl Davis: 51:56

the Klansmen that they were wrong. Exactly, precisely. You know, and, you know, when you see my name and depress, it upsets me a little bit because they always mischaracterize me, you know, black musicians converts X number of kkk people, I never converted anybody, they converted themselves, I was simply the impetus for providing them with information to rethink. And they came to the conclusion, I need to I need to get out of here. I know what to say, hey, No, you're wrong, you know, get out of this organization. Give me your Robin Hood. All that happened. But it hadn't because they wanted to do it. They hadn't because they were influenced by the information I imparted to them. And speaking of Israel, the State Department sent me there to tour Israel for five for five days, at different places to talk about race relations and conflict resolution. Yeah. And I, you know, went to Haifa, Bear, Sheva, Jerusalem, Tel Aviv. I forgot the other place. But um, at one point, I was taken to a university, where Jews, Arabs and Palestinians were all in class together. I'd never seen that before, you know, and that's what needs to be shown in the media. Men and

Margarita Gurri: 53:07

women are just men.

Daryl Davis: 53:08

No, no men and women. They were students all in the same classroom, they were questioning me, I'm addressing them and all that kind of stuff. Now. Um, you know, I left after I gave my lectures, I had to go somewhere else or do another lecture. I don't know. I don't know. If you know, after school, do these people hang out together to go to happy hour together? I don't know. But I do know that they're all in the same classroom. And there was no conflict. You know, and this is what needs to be publicized. But I think oftentimes, the media amidst a lot of things, you know, Oh,

Yonason Goldson: 53:40

yes. No doubt about ever noticed. Yeah. That's, that's, that's one thing, another hour for that one. But, you know, you're being a musician. We talked a little bit about it. But I think it's so integral to your story. Because in Hebrew, everybody knows the Hebrew word Shalom, which is usually translated as peace. But it's more accurately translated as harmony. And what is harmony? It's what would happen if all of you musicians were playing the same notes on the same instrument to be unison? Yeah, it wouldn't sound very good. You it's the differences that create the beauty. That's that synthesis of bringing together different parts in a way that they fuse into an organic whole. And our and our differences become a source of strength. And we become greater than the sum of our parts. Well, you

Daryl Davis: 54:36

have just a beauty. You have just defined my entire mission. Because absolutely, you know, and you said a lot better than I do. How I put it is, look, I'm a bandleader. And my job as a band leader, is to bring harmony on my band stand on my stage between the different voices whether it's the vocal voices The guitar, the piano, the saxophone, the bass, the drums, or whatever else I have on stage, I want them to be in harmony. The only time I want dissonance is when I intentionally injected into a piece of music for effect. You know, if it happens randomly, that's not music, that's noise. That's because somebody hit a bad note, or they went out of tune or something, right? So, you know, you only want dissonance when you intentionally directed. Otherwise, you want everything to blend harmony. And that's the beauty. Yeah. And so not you. So if that's my job as a musician, to bring that harmony on my stage amongst my musicians, wouldn't I want the same thing? When I step off that stage? And I'm going through society? I want people around me to be harmonious. Yes, you know, look, where, you know, we remember in this country, going from black and white TV, to color TV, remember, the NBC peacock, and all that. So many people out here might be too young for that. But anyway, you all know what I'm talking about. Right? We went from black and white, you know, to color, it was like, you know, one dimensional to all of a sudden, something else. Um, when I was overseas, going to school as a kid. And when I would come back here, it was like it was it was doing first, it was going from color TV, to black and white. Because there was not a color in this country at the time that I had overseas. I was literally living about 10 years ahead of my time, being around that many people, you know, and over here were segregated. So it's important, you know, as you point out, you know, to bring that harmony, bring those different colors and sounds together, blend them. That's what makes, you know, you can still maintain your individualism. Absolutely. But sharing what you know, and learning what somebody else knows is what enhances society.

Margarita Gurri: 56:58

Well, your beautiful spirit and your beautiful voice certainly don't hurt in in terms of helping everyone hear your message. Thank you. Thanks. So I think it's come to time. rabbis gonna do a word of the day. And then we'll ask you, sir, Mr. Davis to come up with one final thought call to action, whatever, and then I'll finish off. It has been amazing. I could talk to you for a long time.

Daryl Davis: 57:21

We must do practice sometimes.

Margarita Gurri: 57:23

I would love that. And please let us know how we may be of service to you. Thank you very much. Absolutely. Yeah, Rabbi, sir. Word of the Day.

Yonason Goldson: 57:30

Well, word of the day comes to us from Susan Brooks, the grammar goddess previous guest on our show, and you can find her program and all of our other episodes on our website, the rabbi and Frank calm. This week's word is liminal. liminal, which means relating to or situated at a sensory threshold barely perceptible, are capable of eliciting a response with the sense of being a point of transition. And what I love about your story, Darrell, is it's filled with these moments, where at the time, it may not have been clear that this was a critical moment. But often, those critical moments go unnoticed. I just remembered the story I wanted to tell about this. One of my rabbis, blesses memory. He grew up in America many, many decades ago. And he went to Israel live there for many years. And he was on a retreat, he was on a flight back back in those days, you may remember, some of us remember that there was one screen with one movie. And he hadn't seen a movie in years. And they pass out headphones. And he thought, well, let's see what kind of movies people are watching these days. And he's watching the movie, the first thought that enters his mind is, you can always tell when something important is about to happen in a movie. How do you tell the music, the music starts to swell? And you it tips you off? And he said, wouldn't it be great if life had background music? Yeah, we'd always know

Daryl Davis: 59:19

about that. And, you know, let me tell you something there, you know, you can major in what's called music therapy in college. It's still a relatively new term. Yeah, but this is why they play certain kinds of music in the psych ward in hospitals, why they play certain kinds of music in the prisons, you know, or even in the

Margarita Gurri: 59:36

shopping center. shopping centers. write some music that makes

Daryl Davis: 59:39

you want to buy exactly, you know, you think it's just random music? No, it's programmed, or in the dentist's office is music to calm you. There you go. You know? Absolutely. So, you know, music is a lot more critical to our lives than people realize. People think it's a luxury you know, and whenever the the budget gets cut for schools, you know, they cut out the arts. No, bring him back in. It is critical. And there's so much more music can do. You know, I play at a lot of nursing homes, I volunteer and go in there and play for the residents. You will see people who play stop talking, you know, they're sitting in their wheelchairs or whatever, they don't talk anymore. And I'll play some songs from the 1940s of their youth, all of a sudden, they start singing. And they know the words, they remember every word to sentimental journey, or it had to be you or whatever. And they can't remember what they had for breakfast 10 minutes ago or something. You know, music touches people. And when you hear a certain song, it triggers something in you, that takes you back to where you were, when you last heard that song. Maybe you were dancing with your prom date. Back in high school. It's like perfume, you walk down the sidewalk, and you get a whiff of something some lady's perfumes that also you remember your grandmother, because she wore that same perfume, music is the same way

Yonason Goldson: 1:00:54

to create the music in our own minds. Yeah, because if the music isn't there, we live every moment as if the music swelling because you never know. This may be a moment that's going to change my life and the lives of others.

Daryl Davis: 1:01:09

Rather, what we should do is make more people watch a movie and and kill the audio. There's the music track, and then they get it.

Margarita Gurri: 1:01:20

That's good advice. So do you have some final words of wisdom for our group until the next time you come and hope you'll join us? Again?

Daryl Davis: 1:01:28

I don't know how wise I am. Because I people tell me that I'm crazy. But

Margarita Gurri: 1:01:33

wise, I think people who have futuristic thoughts have been called, well,

Daryl Davis: 1:01:38

I will say this, I am just an ordinary person. I am not a psychologist, I'm not a sociologist, I'm just a rock and roll piano player. And if I can do this, anybody can do this, you know, know who you are, take the opportunity to walk across the cafeteria. What do I mean by that? You know, and a lot of metropolitan areas where there's school or or offices, people from different backgrounds, diverse, you know, religions, colors of skin ethnicities, they've worked together in the classroom, or in the office, they might even share the same cubicle. But what happens at 12 noon, people go downstairs to the cafeteria, and blast it with glass is bad, it's with Hispanics, etc, etc. Right? Does that mean that they are racist? No, not necessarily. People, they said they self segregate because people tend to feel more comfortable around someone who shares a familiar, you know, religion or language or whatever, right? And that's fine. The problem is, if somebody comes to sit with you, you say, Oh, you can't sit on our cable. And then that's a problem. But just self centering is not a problem. But maybe once or twice a week, walk across the cafeteria, leave your familiar group, and go sit with somebody else, because you've got a lot to learn from them. And they have a lot to learn from you. And guess what you might make a new friend, the best weapon in this country to fight anti semitism and racism. The most amazing thing is this weapon doesn't cost anything. It's free. But yet it is the least weapon used is called communication. What does it cost you to walk across the cafeteria and sit at somebody else's table during your lunch break, and just have a conversation is free. a missed opportunity for dialogue is a missed opportunity for conflict resolution. Let's all Converse.

Yonason Goldson: 1:03:37

Thank you for conversing with us. Thank you. I'm grateful you came on your you have your appearance platform is much larger than ours. Oh, thank you. Thank you for inviting me. I do appreciate it. So thanks so much. And Doctor, do you have the last word for us?

Margarita Gurri: 1:03:50

Oh, I've never short a comment. Um, thank you. Mr. Davis. Thank you so much for joining. My pleasure. Thank you. It's always a real pleasure. I'm here my last words. Let's follow up with first have to disagree. You said you're an ordinary guy and I get what you mean. But I laugh about that to me. You're an extraordinary regular guy. I'll tell you can agree to add the extraordinary really regular guy, then I can agree with you. I think your attitude of openness was very courageous. JOHN tenza wants to vote for you president. My twin sister says she thought you were walking the walk in the Jesus way. Sorry, Rabbi, or Moses, I guess Moses way we can add up. So here's my final words. soundtrack. I often tell everyone what is the soundtrack for this part of your life whether it's this day, this moment this year, choose a soundtrack there's always some discord somewhere. Is there someone in your family you haven't spoken to? Or you don't understand? So I have a call to action that is from Mr. Davis, the good Rabbi and myself. Please call that person and listen. Ask them about them. Ask them about your garden, ask them about what they're doing. Just reach out and listen with respect. And then maybe we'll be adding our voices and our beautiful soundtrack to Mr. Davis's mission, which is a shared mission with the rabbi in the shrink. So that's all I have to say about that. Everyone be well listen with respect, and we'll see you every Tuesday at 1230 for the rabbi in the string. Again, thank you, Mr. Davis. Thank you.