The Rabbi and The Shrink

#69: Lucille Ossai - Communicate with Grace

August 04, 2022 Rabbi Yonason Goldson and Dr. Margarita Gurri, CSP Episode 69
The Rabbi and The Shrink
#69: Lucille Ossai - Communicate with Grace
Show Notes Transcript

How can we solve problems of communication when we aren't even aware of them?

How do we turn authenticity from a cliché into a mindset?

Is it hypocritical or authentic to present myself as the person I want to become?

These and other contemporary questions are addressed when award-winning communication guru Lucille Ossai joins The Rabbi and the Shrink.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucilleossaicommunicationspro/

https://www.lucilleossai.com/

Put yourself in the shoes of your audience to create connection with them.

What's the difference between simple and easy?

Body language cues us to be more aware of our own verbal communication.

Don't be afraid to ask for clarification.

What are Dialogues of the Deaf?

How body language triggers confidence in yourself and a positive impact on others.

Authenticity misapplied can become incivility.

It's authentic to be aspirational.

Have the end in mind when you know where you're going.  The courage of curiosity leads us on a journey of discovery that can lead to wonderful destinations we never imagined.

What are the impediments to effective communication?

Great leaders need to be great communicators.

Gratitude and appreciation forms the bonds of mutual respect and trust that facilitate communication.

We have to be aware of the message we might be projecting even if we have no intention of doing so.

The word of the day:  euphony
agreeableness of sound; pleasing effect to the ear, especially a pleasant sounding or harmonious combination or succession of words
Our style of speech established credibility, trust, and connection so the message will be received.

Give yourself permission to be yourself.

Margarita Gurri:

Welcome to the Rabbi and the Shrink, this is Dr. Margarita Gurri, the shrink. And here's my favorite rabbi.

Yonason Goldson:

Yonason Goldson

Margarita Gurri:

And the good rabbi and I are delighted to have with us, Lucille Ossai, welcome

Lucille Ossai:

Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello.

Margarita Gurri:

We're excited because your main topic is about boosting influence and generating results with effective communication. Let me do a little bragging about you before you say much more though. I think it's remarkable that you're in the, your global guru for communication, you have an award winning book, influence and thrive. How professionals, entrepreneurs, business leaders and corporations use effective communication to get results. Everyone wants to stay tuned and learn how to do that. And you have a top communication blog. It's award winning rethinking business communications. Welcome. So tell us tell us about how to thrive then?

Lucille Ossai:

Oh, well, the good news of Margarita is that it's simple. But it takes work. Yeah. And the very first thing I would say is to put yourself in the shoes of your audience, find out what is important to them, and then tailor your communication in a way that appeals to their needs. What are mine is all about authentic connection with your audience. And then from there, you could achieve great things. In a nutshell.

Yonason Goldson:

Here remind me that someone explained the difference between simple and easy. Push ups are simple. Just go up go down. But they are not easy for most of us. And when you can find a process, what you're describing is something that really is simple. Then we could focus our efforts and get better at it. And eventually it will become easier, won't it?

Lucille Ossai:

It will as time goes on if you commit to the arts and crafts, because isn't arts Exactly.

Margarita Gurri:

Where do we start Lucia? Let's say I think I'm a great communicator. But I'm not like, for instance, I just interrupted you. So let's say we're not great communicators. But we think we are or we don't think we are. But we are. So where do we start

Unknown:

by just checking the different types of communication. So we are doing this virtually here? Because you're based in the United States, I'm based in Nigeria, West Africa. So it's the little things just try to take note of my body language, for example, Do I seem engaged? Do I seem interested? Or am I just white in the time of waiting for the time to pass by? You know, and am I maintaining eye contact, which I hope I'm doing? Am I giving you the attention that you deserve? Am I listening actively, so there's only two things that we can do, especially in virtual communication, than in face to face communication is also taking note of the body language, but also the choice of words that someone uses the pace, the rhythm, and just being what are called aware. So you should have a great sense of awareness and situational awareness and be quite sensitive to the vibe the other person is given. And then you will be able to know you know, just ask clarifying questions. Oh, I understand this oh nine to understand your point of view? Or did you say this? Or am I way off? Or could you explain a bit more, because what you're saying is really interesting, I would like to learn, you know, that really opens you up to receiving the best of the other person. So just little things that we tend to also pick up along the way, you know, I said would help.

Yonason Goldson:

In my keynotes, I sometimes reference my college psychology professor who used to say that if you listen to people talk, and you used to be easier to do this, if we traveled by train or bus or plane and you'd sit in the and you listen to people behind you or around you, it's hard to do that now because everybody's talking into little devices. So you can only hear one side of the conversation. But when you listen to people talk, you often hear that they're not actually talking to each other. They're talking at each other. He called it dialogues of the Deaf. Because one person was talking, talking, talking and then he stops and usually to breathe and the other person jumps in and she talks and talks and talks with no not responding to anything he said. And then she has to come up for air and he jumps back and picks up where he left off as if nothing happened and they just keep leapfrogging you over each other, so you're describing the the authenticity is to take a real interest. Yes, in the other person, I want to hear what you have to say. Many people do have something worthwhile to say and not just be thinking about what I'm going to say in response.

Unknown:

Absolutely. And I found that because I'm an introvert. And also people tend to be shocked, especially because I do lectures at a business school, and so on and so forth. But I think that is one of the quickest ways to connect with somebody. And it takes the pressure off of you of trying to be smart or knowledgeable, if you develop a genuine interest in what the other person wants to say. And the point of view, it just releases you think releases you to really be focused on what it is you're going to learn and empowers the other person to be free with you. So you then get that authentic, you know, just like you highlighted that authentic connection. So absolutely, Jonas and I think that's spot on.

Margarita Gurri:

In your book, I took a sneak peek at some of your books, stuff that you have online, on your, on your website, which is really cool, because it's just your name, Lucille L, U, C, I ll E, or site ossai.com. I see I'm getting I'm learning how to say your name. One of the things I was struck with is your first two chapters. One is fake it until you become it. And the other is in authentic body language. So it's kind of a category busters if you wouldn't mind addressing both because I think that's kind of what we are addressing here. How to Be authentic or inauthentic awareness.

Unknown:

Okay, so those two, shall I say, different thoughts? They're very different thoughts. Very different. Yeah. Similar. They're not original to me. So I wasn't the one that came up with that. But when I came across the research, and I read a couple of things about them, it just makes sense. So the first one was attributed to Amy Cuddy. And she gives us fantastic viral tech, talk about your body language, how the body language triggers certain behaviors in you and makes you feel confident, and so on, and so forth. And her premise was that, if you even if you don't feel confident, if you adopt certain body language poses, it sort of triggers something in your brain that makes you feel confidence, and then you begin to, to basically communicate and that new newfound confidence and you'll be able to connect better in a nutshell. So basically, your body language can trigger the of the behaviors that you want, which will make you feel competent, and make others perceive you to be confident. So that was really, really interesting. And then the second, the second premise was by Mark Bowden, who incidentally wrote the foreword for my books. You know, Mark Bowden is an expert in body language. And a really, really great guy. And he's catchy talk was focused on the fact that you need to be able to trigger a certain category to get the results that you want to be able to influence people and to be able to connect better. And in order to trigger that friend category, you deliberately have to put on setting body language cues that make you out to be perceived as friendly and approachable and as comfortable. So in a way, you choose the body language that you want to display on purpose, to trigger a positive perception of you and your person and your credibility. And that, in turn, leads you to more authentic connections that you otherwise would not have had, if you just depended on you know, your natural instincts or your natural way of interacting with people. So fascinating, fascinating stuff.

Margarita Gurri:

That is that the rabbi and I were talking about before about the misperception many people have about authenticity. And then I was reminded of a quote, My father always said, it is authentic to birth at the dinner table. But in this family, we do not. And I think that people think, Well, I feel it, I think it so I'm just going to say it and do it. And I don't think that that's what authenticity

Unknown:

is about. No, no, no, absolutely. And the way I explained it also on another podcast is that we are different versions of ourselves. I don't know if that makes sense. We're just more than one person. So the way I might be on this podcast might be different from the well and be with my family, which would in turn be different from the way I would conduct myself in a business meeting or in a pitch. So it's really not about being on true to yourself. You just choose the aspects of yourself and put your best foot forward and choose the aspect that will be appropriate. for that particular series, well said, you know, well said, I really liked that I just think that's

Yonason Goldson:

just the way it is or should be aspirational. I have a vision of myself what I would like to be what I am working towards becoming. And even if I'm not there yet, it doesn't make me in authentic to work on presenting myself that way. Because it's that work that's actually going to transform me into that person that I want to become.

Unknown:

Absolutely, absolutely. And especially if you are keen on self development on growth, if you have that growth mindsets, just like I do, then you are open to learning new things to refine your craft to connect better with people, my line of work is all about communication. So I'm constantly learning and trying to tweak to home to apply new things and discover things that don't don't work. So you have to have an open mind, and you have to be willing to learn and to appreciate that there may be things that you might not know that other people might know, you're like, Oh, that's really, really nice. That's a nice technique. That's a nice, so I'm going to incorporate and see whether it works. And guess what it might work. It might not work. But if it works, it probably works better and what you would do it and that's something new that you've learned. So absolutely, I think I think it's also rooted in, in having a growth mindset and wanting to always be best and wanting to improve yourself as you go along.

Yonason Goldson:

What's your, what are your roots that set you on this course? How did you get passionate about this?

Unknown:

Believe it or not, I stumbled stumbled into this field. Yeah. A couple of years ago, I after my first job. I resigned a couple of years over many years ago now. And I was a stay at home mom for a couple of years. And I just kept on noticing things were not right. People were not doing things right. You know, I would listen to a speech by a respected personnel like that's not quite right, that they didn't that wasn't right. Or I would read about an article about a scandal or something like no, they should have communicated. And then one day, I just decided, you know, just some some inner prompting, I just decided to start writing. And I literally started I had a BlackBerry device. I don't know if you remember what those are. But I had a BlackBerry device. And then I just started writing my thoughts on my Blackberry. And believe it or not, B C was at my local Catholic Church. So Margarita, I know you told me you're a Catholic. Yes. So I had dropped off my son for khakis and lessons. And I was bored. And I was like, What do I do, and I just started writing on my Blackberry. And then I just thought, this is really interesting, because William crostini, come back home, just started the blog, and it started blogging. And what I found out was that the more I blogged, the more curious I became about communication. And the more passionate I became, and he just built on from that just built on from that. And then fast forward a couple of years later, I was able to deliver a training for a small consulting company in Lagos, Nigeria, because somebody had read one of my blog articles and recommended me. And that was how it just took off from there. And then I landed a job as a communications coach at the Lagos Business School. And then it just snowballed. And I became really obsessed as the years went by. But it wasn't something that I planned. It was just something that was the word happened, like you say, organically, it just something that just happened naturally, I just developed this interest and found out that it's something I wanted to do. That's

Margarita Gurri:

marvelous. That's absolutely marvelous. Well, one of the questions we always ask is, What made you start writing it down? So we know that you have the courage and the idea and things are bothering you, but what made you decide to just go for it?

Unknown:

Yeah, that's a good question. I think I just, again, I didn't really plan it, especially the blog. I didn't plan it. But I had been reading and noticing a lot of things that I thought needed to change. And I just thought I just needed to put something down to explore it's even started from the desire to explore this whole world of communications better. Yeah, that was just sort of my thoughts. Were just okay. This is what I think this is what I know. And I started interacting, I started becoming really aware of different things. And because I had worked previously before that worked for about four Yes, I had quite a lot of instances, that this is what happened when I was writing this when I was communicating with that. And I started asking questions, my husband would tell me, he's tales of war, from work, you know. So all these things just, I just kept just thinking about all those things and kept on exploring. And then the more reason why I began to explore, after the reading a lot, I started connecting with people. And then the passion just just came. So the passion came, when I started, not necessarily before I started, it's weird. It's almost like a reverse reverse of what usually happens. And, yeah, I just found that the writing was just a very good way to have sharing insights and learning and interacting with people. And writing is still a really big part of my work on the blog continues. You know, even after 10 years, I've been blogging every month for 10 years,

Margarita Gurri:

your blog is beautiful. Thank you well written, thought provoking, and practical, I thought it's very well done.

Yonason Goldson:

No story. Because, you know, we hear often, that you need to start with the end in mind, you have to have the destination in mind. And that's great. If you have a destination. Sometimes, we really don't know where we want to go, or where we ought to go or where we are going. To have that kind of courage of curiosity. As an inquisitive, I mean, just just right, the process of writing can be so revelatory, because we actually give ourselves the opportunity to follow our ideas, and to explore and put ourselves in new situations. I mean, I graduated college, what do you do with your degree in English? I went hitchhiking cross country. And I don't necessarily recommend that. But, of course, that led me to a life that I never would have imagined if I hadn't taken that step of discovery. Absolutely.

Unknown:

Absolutely.

Margarita Gurri:

And let's look at the ethics of that self exploration for both of for both of you. I mean, this is a podcast about issues that have to do with ethics. And the, you know, the courage of curiosity, you know, the the see, you know, Rabbi, why don't you Why don't you do our ethics, what are what does ethics stand for?

Yonason Goldson:

So the E is empathy. You have to be able to relate to people and anticipate their feelings, the T is trust, you have to cultivate that relationship or your trust and are trustworthy. It just humility. Because you mentioned earlier, you're you're always learning we all should be always learning because there's always more for us to know and we can learn for everyone. The eye is inquisitiveness, we didn't use it for this curiosity, because the seat is brokerage. Those often go hand in hand. And then they asked us self discipline, because it's not a check. It's not a list of check off the boxes. It's a process. And we have to continue continuously go through it again. And again.

Unknown:

I think I think basically, that is all what effective communication entails. I really liked I really liked that. Because could you run through again, empathy, and see trust in quiz, inquisitiveness?

Margarita Gurri:

I'm gonna put it in the chat for you.

Unknown:

Yes, please, please, please, please. I think that's a really good way to connect with people and to, to develop that bond rather quickly. I think it's really, really important.

Yonason Goldson:

Yeah, I'll send you a link. I have a, I wrote it up in an article for Fast Company. You know, I think it's something that we all need to refer back to. Yeah, because these are all critical components. And if we overlook any of them, we're going to end up stumbling somewhere.

Margarita Gurri:

Well, and I think that that's what you did, because you were curious, and they had the courage of your convictions with to follow your curiosity without the security of an alleged quid endpoint. I think you've been able to do marvelous things for yourself and others. I I salute you, I think it's really wonderful.

Unknown:

Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you very much down the light I did get employed and all that, but that just really helped the writing and everything just really helped. And it's still really helping me as well because I still learn new things. And that the great thing about communication is that it's really broad. And if you're open, you learn, you continue to learn, you continue to learn.

Margarita Gurri:

So we look forward to hearing more about your different books and different blogs as well, too. From books. The Vic Yes, I first see other books with an S. Yes, I can see you doing that. So what are the top mistakes? The barriers to this effective communication? Help Help clue us in what do we need to watch out

Unknown:

for? Okay, so prior to the pandemic, I wouldn't really have profits off for the pandemic really brought this to the fore, I would say cultural awareness. Extremely important. Yeah, because now people are collaborating across regions. We're having this fantastic conversation from different locations, and all that. So being sensitive to the fact that the way you might view things, even the way you might communicate certain things might be different from the other party and knowing how to be a bit sensitive, and how to be professional and accommodating enough. And then if you are going to be visiting a foreign country, or you're going to be doing business as well, just taking that extra time to inquire what's appropriate, what's how you should come talk to yourself, how you should talk, how you should connect would go a really long way, because there are a lot of mistakes that people make, because they just don't know, the culture of the land, or the communication style, or the people that are interacting with. So I would say cultural awareness, and the two, and I think that really comes in the age of the ethics, humility, just being open and being humble and willing to admit that you don't know everything, even if you're a leader, because that is the best way you will be able to coax people to really share their ideas, without fear of retribution or bottles, and so on and so forth. A great leader and a great should be a great communicator that makes it easy for people to contribute their ideas. So that would also mean a change in leadership, as well, a change in leadership. So gone are the days when you know, the CEO, the head made all the decision. Now, the smart leader knows that he has to be collaborative. And his role is basically to spare actions and attitudes towards achieving a common goal towards achieving the vision for the company. And you cannot do that. If you're not humble if you're not open, and if you're not willing to learn. So. So that's number two. And then number three, is, I don't think this gets I'm not I'm thinking about I don't think this gets enough attention. But I think also making people feel appreciated, you know, if they don't, if they've done something good with them, maybe a good suggestion, just keeping them recognition, I think that is really important. And sometimes it's just the little things, oh, you know, Margarita had this fantastic idea. And because of our you know, braids, involvement and because she was able to do this, you know, our company was able to do that. So really appreciate your hard work Margarita, please keep us in the loop on how things are going are you understand, I really appreciate the you know, you call me outside and explaining a couple of things that you feel that we ought to consider that we hadn't considered before. So all those little bits of recognition really, really helped to increase trust. That's why when you came up with the xx with the with with the eye, I looked at it, I was like, this is brilliant. This basically is what effective communication should be empathetic, it should be you know, open and inquisitive, and so on, and so forth. So I think those are the three and then just be very mindful of the body language as well. I became very, very appreciative of the power of body language when I started researching for my book and writing because I have a whole section on body language. And I learned from the experts, and the more I was exposed to their work and common sense based on mistakes that I have made, as well. The more appreciative I became of how important it is that you exude the right body language, either, you know, the tone of voice, the way you address, the eye contact, your gestures, all these things matter. And all these things create a perception of you. And sometimes it's a swift as a couple of seconds. So if we're able to keep all these things in mind, I think that would really help.

Yonason Goldson:

That's useful. Yeah, there's a whole lot to unpack right there. But your your first point about the mindfulness and the awareness. You know, Socrates says you don't you don't know what you don't know. Right? And just being aware that when I'm engaging someone else, there may be cultural differences that I just don't know about. There may be personal preferences that I don't know about. And I don't even know to ask the questions. Ah, so there has to be kind of a reciprocity there, there has to be a mutual respect that if someone violates my boundaries, I'm willing to presume positive intent. I'm willing to give people, yes, an amount of grace to make mistakes, right. And then we have to be willing to be instructed. So for instance, for instance, somebody just pointed something out to me the other day, that when we talk on Zoom, many of us have this problem, that it's very difficult to look in the camera, while we're talking to people on the screen, because we want to relate to people by their facial expressions and their body languages. But we also want them to feel like we are talking to them, and not talking to other parts of their body. Right. And it was pointed out to me that on a regular screen, if I'm looking at the middle of the screen, so the woman I'm talking to, is going to think I'm looking at a different part of her anatomy. And, of course, I'm not, and I don't, but we're projecting something. Yeah, because we have trouble dealing with the technology. And so a simple fix for that, that I started using is I moved my screen up. So that is just a strip closer to my camera. And the space between looking at the face of the person I'm talking to you right now and looking at the camera is minimal. And that just creates an an impression. That is a truer representation of the communication we're having. But until somebody pointed that out to me, it never would have occurred to

Unknown:

me. Exactly. And if the person made that suggestion, and you were being defensive, the person would not be comfortable making similar suggestion something like, you know, I really like what you said, because I'm really, I'm quite active on LinkedIn. And sometimes I get messages. Yeah. And I, that's why I put the cultural thing is number one, and some messages, I get quite inappropriate. Or then I try not to take a lot of offense, because it's not that they abuse bad language, it's just the tone is a little bit off. You know, so I give the benefit of the doubt. So I've actually sort of taken a step back to say, Okay, let me just assume that this person has, like you said, positive intends, yeah, I know, I try not to get to get irritated easily. I'm like, oh, and then sometimes, you know, along the way, you know, the person corrects, you know, the style of the tool. And I think we're all like, oh, that's, that's fine. You know, and all those things. So I think just being a bit empathetic, and just realizing that the way sometimes people communicate will be different, and just giving them that opportunity, at least in the first few instances, to get to know you a little bit better, and all that. And then you can decide, is this a relationship with this a business association or relationship I want to cultivate or I just still, I still don't feel comfortable because, you know, communicate with this person, X number of times, and I'm feeling really uncomfortable, but at least you've given the person the benefit of the doubt. And I think that is what is lacking sometimes in professional communication. And all that, because styles are different. Sometimes people speak English and English is not their first language. So they come across as very abrupt and very direct, which might be a bit like, whoa, but just give give, give them a bit of time, give them a bit of time and just see how it goes. Otherwise, you'll find that that, you know, you're missing out on great positive, potentially great relationships and associations and collaborations down the line. So I think that it's really important.

Margarita Gurri:

So every misunderstanding really is an opportunity to build trust. And yes, an atmosphere for curiosity and exchange of ideas. So I think that's exciting. Absolutely. Rob, I think it's time for the word from the day and when we come back, we'd like to hear about loose seals. Next adventures we've gotten, maybe this was your takeaway, maybe you have also another takeaway for our audience, because they all really need you, especially now as we're still in the Zoom thumbnail world, but also, we're beginning to do more and more out in the open. The rabbi and I just met for the first time two weeks ago.

Unknown:

Really, for real, yeah.

Yonason Goldson:

A year and a half of being co host.

Margarita Gurri:

Yeah, we've been co hosts for a lot for you know, a long time but we've never really met and one thing that was hard for me as I'm cube and right, and we're very touchy, and we're close. And he's a rabbi, I'm not supposed to touch them unless I'm his wife. Right. So, right, I looked, I looked like I was having, you know, some sort of reflex issue. So that that's something. So it's been interesting. A lot of my other friends that we met were so used to the square that we did this. Oh, hi, that's, you know, yeah. All right. So Rabbi, word of the day, please, sir, word of the day, I

Yonason Goldson:

think is a perfect fit for our guest of the day. And the word is euphony euphony. Which means agreeableness of sound, a pleasing effect to the ear?

Margarita Gurri:

Oh, it sounds like that. It does. Shining. You

Unknown:

know, it's, it's like a river, like you're

Yonason Goldson:

especially a pleasant sounding or harmonious combination, or a succession of words. And when we are thoughtful about our choice of words, that people people respond to the message better?

Unknown:

Yes.

Yonason Goldson:

When we, when we, when we package it? Well, it's not enough to have good content, we have to have a certain style, we have to have a certain sensitivity of expression, there has to be that authenticity, people have to believe that I really mean what I say that I have developed the idea in a thoughtful way, that I'm articulating it in a way that really brings out the substance and the essence. And then you get that kind of harmonic, or euphonic response, I'm drawn to the message. Because it's been presented to me from a source that's pleasant, that's credible. And in a manner, that's easy for me to receive the sages say that you have to phrase in a way that will be heard. It's not enough to be right. It's not enough to be wise. There's a way of communicating the message so that the person on the other side will be able to accept it, receive it and digest it. And I think you are a wonderful example for us.

Unknown:

Thank you. Thank you for

Margarita Gurri:

teaching that as well, which is lovely. Thank you. Well, thank. Thank you, Rabbi. What a great choice of words.

Unknown:

Unusual. I don't think I've heard that word before.

Margarita Gurri:

I've never heard it before. But I like it a lot. It makes me think of all the times we smile when someone's speaking. Yeah, you know, yes, yeah. And sometimes we don't even know how our Mony is what they're saying is or how pleasant until we see our mood changing how it impacts others.

Unknown:

It's yeah, it's truly a gift.

Yonason Goldson:

It's just an interesting bit of Martin Luther King's famous, I Have a Dream speech. So many of us are heard have heard that, that that segment is about two thirds of the way into the speech. Oh, yes, that he had a scripted speech that he departed from. Yeah. And that that section was was was extemporaneous. But what I only heard recently, is that the first part of the speech apparently did not go well. It was not particularly well received. And somebody who knew him in the audience picked up on that and shouted up, tell them your dream. And that prompt, steered him to spontaneously giving one of the most famous and compelling speeches in history, because he gave himself permission to be himself. And

Margarita Gurri:

he set the atmosphere for trusts, like what Lucille was talking about, so someone could set him straight. That's really cool.

Unknown:

Yes. So you can imagine if he cannot ignore that advice, that piece of advice, because there's a huge crowd and somebody's just say, tell them about your speech. And he was like, you know, I have a script I have to follow. Yeah, it's great to have everything planned and

Margarita Gurri:

rehearsed. And we may not be talking about him today, then. Exactly. That was quite well with him, we would have his message would have been heard another way. I have faith. So how about takeaways, and then you're fine. Some adventures you're looking forward

Unknown:

to? Well, the takeaway, especially, it's something that you know, it's something that advice and I've come to realize in the course of my work is that it doesn't really matter whether you have a natural talent For speaking or for writing, effective communication is a skill you can learn, you just have to be willing to do the work to be open and open to the different techniques and to have a basically an open mindset and a curious mind, and to dedicate the time to refine and hone the craft. Really, really important, because it's a skill that keeps on improving, the more you keep on exercising the muscle. So I think that is the key takeaway. Excited? No, this isn't really epic, but just just just try to follow through on the personal goals that I have for my, my business and basically my craft, and hopefully to just, you know, appear on more stages this year. And to try to take some time out for myself as well to just try to relax and not to worry so much. Not to worry so much. Because I tend to be a worrier if I if I if I make that term. So just to just to take things in stride. And always realize that no matter what's going through, it could be worse. It might sound a bit pessimistic, but it's a bit of a comfort, you know, you will get new and old contracts, you will get through this. It couldn't be worse. So, you know, there's still time you know, there's still time and there's still hope to walk towards something that says so. Does that it Sookie loving, epic, like climbing climbing a mountain or you know, going across the world? But

Margarita Gurri:

is there something fun or funny or totally not work related that you're excited about? Or looking forward to?

Unknown:

That's a really good question. No, I actually sat down to think about it.

Margarita Gurri:

We started asking it because we found that many of our leaders are not taking care of themselves. So that's why we started

Unknown:

that exactly. Yeah, it's really I've just I've just realized that it's not it's not something I've thought about, oh, just this is Monday, but basically to watch more great films. Yeah. So there are two films that are coming up that I'm really looking forward to the Wakanda film. Haha, the Wakanda film, you know, the blind love that I'm really looking forward to. I was just telling my husband yesterday because I saw the trailer and I was getting a bit emotional. I was like, I've got to watch this film. I haven't been to the cinema this year. But I have to see that film. So yeah, that one. And then there's another one also because it's, it's finally beginning to open the door for more light to shine on African culture and especially the feelers to feel strong female, African female leaders and others. So that's the second film by I think Viola Davis. The woman King, I think that's what it's called. So those are the two things I'm really looking for. Is

Margarita Gurri:

it the girl King or the woman King?

Unknown:

I think it's the isn't the woman King?

Margarita Gurri:

I don't remember when I'm gonna look it up real fast.

Unknown:

Yeah, I think it's a woman King. So those two films I'm really looking forward to. So just on white, going to the cinema used to be one of those things that I've treasured. I'm a bit of an introvert, I don't go out too much. But going to the cinema used to be a very good pastime, and then COVID hits. And then, you know, I haven't really gotten back to this. So I'm really looking forward to that. And that's really interesting. If you haven't asked, I wouldn't really have sat down to say, Okay, this is what I Yeah, so that's really

Yonason Goldson:

very good at asking questions.

Margarita Gurri:

Thank you. I'm doing the grandma saying that the rabbi and I want everyone who's contributing to take care of themselves so that they can benefit people for a long time, but also themselves. So we've seen a lot of burned out leaders doing good all over that all around the world. And we decided to take that on as a task. You know,

Unknown:

you're doing a fantastic index, it makes us basically put things in perspective. So you need to do yeah, there has to be life outside

Margarita Gurri:

especially with someone like you since you're a thinker. So I bet you when you're off doing nothing you're gonna have eventually so many aha moments and thoughts and ideas and notice thing that will feed you your your business tenfold.

Unknown:

I believe so yes,

Margarita Gurri:

I think Julie nothing or fun or silly things like I'm learning how to juggle. I'm terrible. I'm down to juggling two balls. That's good. That's the best I've got. Give me another week to nine months, whatever it takes. I will learn to juggle that's a silly task. Rabbi, do you have a silly thing you're working on?

Yonason Goldson:

I do have a silly thing I'm working on or a fun thing

Margarita Gurri:

that that is not like serious work.

Yonason Goldson:

Well, I haven't I just took a three and a half week vacation in Israel. And I, I gave my purse self permission to pretty much unplugged, spend a lot less time online

Unknown:

and didn't worry about it.

Margarita Gurri:

That's great. And yet you created your street sign videos, many videos. Yeah,

Yonason Goldson:

no. In other words, I love what I do, I'd love to create content. And I don't know, I don't I could do that all day, every day, and be very fulfilled. But as you say, we do need to distract ourselves, because that gives the brain a way of settling of refocusing, and making connections and seeing things that we wouldn't notice. Otherwise. So having time to, to just change the rhythm of our lives, really, will help us in all of our goals. That's,

Margarita Gurri:

that's wonderful. Well, Lucille aside, you have been such a treat to have on we're, we're just delighted that you said yes. When we asked you to come on. And I know that our audience is excited to go to your website. And check out what you have and read your book and look at your award winning blogs as well. You have a lot to share it and can't wait to see what you learned from those two movies.

Unknown:

Yeah, absolutely. I may blog about it as well, because I know that there will be lessons that would resonate with me. So yes,

Margarita Gurri:

I see a blog in your future. Thanks, everyone. Thank you for tuning in. Rabbi, did you have a final word, sir?

Yonason Goldson:

No, doctor, it's the final word is yours.

Margarita Gurri:

That final word. My final words are we thank the you, Fennec Lucille aside, and May everyone take the time from these three introverts whether you're an introvert or extrovert, the process of finding out where we are by writing is something we all recommend. So we'll see you at the next episode of The rabbi in the string. And thank you for joining us.

Unknown:

Thank you for listening to the rabbi and the shrink everyday ethics unscripted to book Dr. Red Shoe Dr. Margarita, Guri, or Rabbi Jonas and Goldson as speakers or advisors for your organization, contact them at the rabbi and the shrink.com. This has been a doctor Red Shoe production