#75: Greg Peters - Secrets of Reluctant Networking

How do you enter into a relationship for your own benefit without making it all about you?

Why is ethics essential to successful networking?

When does "How can we help each other?" become a form of manipulation and misrepresentation?

These and other highly relevant topics are addressed when networking guru Greg Peters joins The Rabbi and the Shrink.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/thereluctantnetworker/

How did reluctant networking grow into the next big idea?

If people want to work with people they know, like, and trust, unethical behavior will sabotage your success.

How can engaging in a conversation that doesn't interest you lead to successful relationship building?

The complicated business of referral fees.

If something is objectively ethical, can it still be a bad idea?

We have nothing more valuable than our good name.

A networking event is not a place to look for sales.

Look for a common point of reference.  Ask open-ended questions not about work.

Being a little vulnerable makes us more accessible so others will do the same.

The power of "and you?" or "What a great question! What answers have you gotten?"

Respond without I, Me, or My.

If you pretend to have interest, you might spark some genuine interest.

Is it ever too late to follow up?

The Word of the Day:  Gulosity 

Excessive appetite, greediness
Don't indulge in "what's-in-it-for-me?"
Look for ways to be of service

Zig Ziglar: You can have everything you want in life if you help enough other people have what they want in life.

Transcript

Margarita Gurri: 0:03

Welcome to another episode of The Rabbi and The Shrink. This is Dr. Margarita Gurri, the shrink. And here's my favorite rabbi. Yonason Goldson. The good rabbi and I are delighted today we have Greg Peters. Here. Hi, Greg.

Greg Peters: 0:18

Hi, Doc. All right.

Margarita Gurri: 0:21

Well, Greg is one of my favorite grownups. He is a part of my National Speakers Association, Michigan chapter. He was one of the presidents. He's one of those guys who's always there to lend a hand. He's very steady. And I think that he's the whole idea of him being a network. networker extraordinaire, comes because he was an introvert. And he was, he's a recovering IT professional, with a long history of doing good works. And he then uncovered the secret code, talk about coding, right? To networking, in person, or virtually. So he's here today, he's written a book called Hello, and a handshake, which is a really cute name, giving you some of the secrets. And he has an offer 52 connection tips, we'll make sure that we put up put it in the in our show notes so that everyone can access that. Please uncover for us. First off, why don't you tell us how did you come? How did you decide to go from IT professional minding your own business and you're a little cubicle with a pocket protector, to now that network, the reluctant networker extraordinaire how that happened?

Greg Peters: 1:37

You know, it's funny, you should say that because I actually worked for University of Michigan for many years as a computer programmer. In my last position there, we all had our own little offices. And on Wednesday morning, they would leave doughnuts out in the common area to hopefully out to talk to each other. How it all happen is I started my own business back in 1994, I decided to start doing web development. You know, this was back when I was brand new, and anybody could do it. And so I kind of it was just evenings and weekends, and I was going to be this entrepreneur. And what they don't actually tell you is you have to actually go out and find your own work. So and I found that aggressively waiting by the phone wasn't wasn't doing that much work for me. So I decided to try this networking thing. Well, as a computer programmer, I had zero skill set in this area. So it was it was a real challenge. And I would go out to these networking events for the chamber and sit in the corner and just wait for it to be over. It was it was uncomfortable. It was it felt like a complete waste of time for me. But over time, I read a lot of books, I tried a lot of things, I actually took a class from my mom, because she was teaching networking. And I got better at it to the point where I actually left the university and went full time on my business. And that was great. I loved it, until it grew to the point where I didn't love it anymore. It was it was a it was just too much work coming in. I never really wanted to have someone working for me. And it was one night 2009 I was up at three o'clock in the morning trying to get the work done. And I suddenly realized this is not making me happy anymore. This is not the calling of my soul. And you know went to bed to I'm done with this for right now. I'll maybe tomorrow I'll feel enthused. And the next day I was actually chatting with a friend of mine from the chamber and she said, Well, did you ever think about teaching people about how you grew your business? And that was the moment that the reluctant networker was born.

Margarita Gurri: 3:51

I think that's brilliant, Who named you that you are did your friend and your that I actually

Greg Peters: 3:55

I named it. It was it was it was, again with my mom's help she talks about as part of a way she taught things is how your reputation and how you are known in your circles can sometimes help spread your word of mouth. And so I was I became the geek that speaks and and then I finally settled on the reluctant networker because it was who I was in a to I help.

Margarita Gurri: 4:24

I think it's brilliant.

Yonason Goldson: 4:26

That's something that you know, many of us some of someone said to me recently that if you walk into a networking event, you'll look around, and you'll see that people are also looking around looking for anyone to show any sign of interest.

Greg Peters: 4:44

Yes. I refer to that as waiting for networking to happen to you.

Margarita Gurri: 4:52

I was at an event the other day. Yes, we're having events again. So I know you'd be even more popular than you had been during COVID Um it, and I got out of the bathroom stall, and someone handed me a card before I even wash my hands.

Greg Peters: 5:05

Oh, you're kidding me? No, I am not that obviously that is that's taking. We call them deck dealers, that's appealing to a whole new level.

Margarita Gurri: 5:14

I just thought, wow. And I said, Well, why don't you put it over there? My hands aren't washed yet. And I started laughing, because it just was a funny moment. And I asked her what inspired her to do that. And actually, this was, since we knew you were coming on the show, I said, Why don't you check out the reluctant networker. He's got an idea of things that will be even more productive than handing out your card in the bathroom.

Greg Peters: 5:44

You know, that actually comes from, you know, networking from 40 or 50 years ago that you know, the more cards you hand out, the better. And there are still some sales managers who have that mindset because that was what they learned. I remember, you go to those networking events and you attend, you hand out at least 40 cards.

Margarita Gurri: 6:02

And I remember that they didn't care how many you collected? Or how many people you connected with? Yeah, that was kind of interesting. So here we are talking about networking. Yeah. So then the rabbi, now we're talking and what does that have to do with ethics? So the Ron, what's the answer, sir?

Greg Peters: 6:19

Yeah. Well, we were talking about this before is I'm used to the how and the why not the you know, the ethics of the whole thing. But really, if you think about it, good networking, edits, underpinnings, ethics are all involved there, we talk about how we only do business with those we know like and trust. If you are unethical, then two out of those three are probably not going to go so well for you. You know, they're in there are two different areas where you could be unethical, you could be unethical in what you do for a living, which will really come back to hurt you because your network, the strength of your network, is not in the people, you know, it's in the people they know. And if you behave in an unethical manner, that's actually going to work against you because they will that word will spread throughout the people who know you, you can even be called your network anymore. That point is just the people who are aware of you and your infamy Auntie know, what was that

Yonason Goldson: 7:18

the anti network,

Greg Peters: 7:19

the anti backward? That's exactly it.

Margarita Gurri: 7:22

And that's a strong, unforgiving group.

Greg Peters: 7:25

It really can be once you've damaged that trust, with any sort of unethical behavior. I was at a networking event, one time I was just a visitor, it wasn't a regular attendee to this particular group that I was chatting with. It was an insurance salesman, seemed like a nice guy. But then he started talking about how he loved selling, I think it was supplemental insurance. And I don't exactly understand the insurance industry, but he said, I love to call up elderly people and scare them. So they'll buy my insurance. And I was like, that seems like something I don't want to be associated with a guy. He's,

Margarita Gurri: 8:02

he's not understanding his branding.

Greg Peters: 8:04

No, no, maybe what he actually meant to say was, I like to be connected with elderly so that I can help them understand where they might have shortfalls, so I can help them. You're being too generous.

Margarita Gurri: 8:16

That's not what he said. Well,

Greg Peters: 8:17

I know. But But yeah, I like to like to look on the bright side. But honestly, at that point, I was like, I can't be, I would never refer you. Because as far as I'm concerned, the way you think is unethical is not going to work out. Alright,

Margarita Gurri: 8:31

so you've now opened a wonderful door that the rabbi and I like to peek into all the time. Oh, if I'm at a networking event, yes. How do I show that I'm ethical, and how do I show that I'm unethical? What are the two paths master? And Greg, by the way, is a fifth degree Master back black belt in Taekwondo. So master is the proper term. He is the Obi Wan, Obi Wan, you have

Greg Peters: 8:57

to they do have to call me Master Greg down at the school. So as to what is the path

Margarita Gurri: 9:01

of enlightenment and disenchantment, sir.

Greg Peters: 9:04

So it's, this can be a bit of a challenge. But basically, it comes out to you do you behave in the way you represent yourself. And in some of the things you you'll see this, you may not see it at a networking event. Because really, at a networking event, you only have about five minutes to talk to any given person in my insurance guy not withstanding that, you know, he's stepped out of line there. But in general, most people are going to be can be on their best behavior for five minutes. Where I see it often is in the follow up. And people will say, it will say something like, Hey, let's get together for coffee so we can see how we can help each other. Now, at the forefront that seems pretty reasonable. When you get together with them, though their idea of how we can help each other is how you can buy from me and how I can sell to you it's as far as I'm concerned, you have misrepresented the idea of is developing a strong relationship together so that we can help each other. You have you've, you're wasting both of our times, first of all, but I'm not you put me in an uncomfortable position, you're not going to sell to me. And I thought we were going to be developing a friendship on purpose.

Yonason Goldson: 10:18

You mentioned the idea of being on best behavior. And, of course, one of the big buzzwords today is authenticity. Yes. Well, if somebody isn't someone that I really want to have anything to do with, then they're being authentic is not going to be an asset. No, that's easy. Yeah. And then if I have to work to be on best behavior, that's already an indication that I'm somewhat you know, authentic. I mean, the Austin Sith, authenticity should mean should mean that my best behavior is a true representation of who I am. And I think it's very ethics comes in.

Greg Peters: 11:00

If you think about it, there are people who are I've been able to say, well, you know, what, if there's someone I really want to talk to at the event, and I'm gonna say, that's fine. But why do you want to talk to them? What is your underlying purpose is your underlying purpose because you want to put them in a headlock and you want to sell something to them? Then probably you need to reexamine your motives? If it's because you think you have something that you can benefit them that won't necessarily benefit you, you're willing to put your the resources you have behind you to their service, then that's probably a good reason to meet them.

Margarita Gurri: 11:34

I think so. And then you have to follow up. And yet, how many times do we meet people? Who, like, even when they're doing a presentation in a group, tell us how they sell and the selling is crooked? Hmm. You know, they're, they're misrepresenting something or, and they tell you, they're doing it. And I'm like, always thinking, with the Candid Camera is what I'm always looking at. I mean, are they? Are they testing? How the audience handles this unethical thing? I mean, what, what isn't? And I think maybe the rabbi wrote a book, grappling with the gray. And I think some people mean, for them to grapple with the gray means, let me live on the gray side, and blur the boundaries enough to get what I want. And that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about struggling to be ethical, in complicated situations. How about what do you have to say about that you're the grappling with the gray guy?

Yonason Goldson: 12:33

Well, I think it's a nice, it's a nice follow up to the the authenticity, point that what is my real motivation? If it's all about what's in it for me, then that's going to color all of my interactions. You know, I find that when I go to a conference, inevitably, I'll be approached by Christians who want to engage me in theological discussion. And that's not really what I'm there for. Okay. But if it's of interest to them, then it's an opportunity to create a connection on on the level that they're seeking. And that may not turn into business, it may not seem to advance the cause for which I'm attending the conference. But on a more universal level, the idea of creating new connections, and you never know how one connection is going to lead to another. And that's really what networking is all about. It's not what you're going to offer me, but it's what each of us may get, and may contribute to one another, or to those who are part of our network. Exactly.

Greg Peters: 13:58

You haven't you I couldn't have put it better. It really is about, it's the connections we make. It's about and I tell people, it's almost always got to be about that other person. If you make it about you, then everybody. I mean, we know when someone is techniques to us, when someone walks up to us and is asking us a certain questions in certain ways to try and push push us down their sales funnel. You know, we can feel it, it feels yucky. I think that's the technical term for it.

Margarita Gurri: 14:31

Very technical coding term. Yes. Yeah.

Greg Peters: 14:33

And we don't want to be a part of that. It tends that we tend to put up our defenses when that happens, we and rightfully so. But if we are focused more on how we can be of service and that's what I tell anybody who's who's starting out their networking path, look for ways to be of service whenever possible, because then you become a part of their lives you become intimately connected with them. And then when it time comes and you ask for a favor or When they ask you How can I help, they're prepared, they're there, they want to help you they want your success, because your success becomes a reflection of them.

Margarita Gurri: 15:10

And I think many people do have that idea, which is interesting. So I have a question that there's been a lot of controversy about and different industries have different ethics about this issue, the issue of referral fees? Have you bumped into an elegant way to think about that, so that people who are listening can ponder it more effectively?

Greg Peters: 15:33

Yeah, referral fees are a real challenge. Because it in many ways, it taints the referral. In my opinion, referrals always should be to the benefit of the other two parties. You know, I know you're looking for an accountant, I know a great accountant, let me bring the two of you together. And maybe that will work out, let me let me give you this recommendation. But if I'm giving the recommendation, because I know if I refer three or four people to whom I get a trip to Las Vegas or whatever, then it becomes a little a little questionable. It's it's, so I guess if if you're going to take part in that, first of all, you got to be transparent. So I truly believe that, that Bob is going to be a great accountant for you. But just to be clear, he does offer a referral benefit. As a result of this, and I had a sales coach who did, he said, If you bring three people to my class, I will pay for a lunch for you or whatever. And there were people in our classes that I will never refer to him. Because I can no longer say that there is no benefit back to me. And people will question whether or not I'm still being authentic and ethical about Yeah,

Margarita Gurri: 16:54

in my industry, I'm a psychologist, it's considered unethical.

Greg Peters: 16:58

I imagined it will.

Margarita Gurri: 17:01

Because, you know, I can't refer in any way, if it's tainted, it has to be for the greater good. And for the, for the specific, best need of the persons involved. And yet, it's become industry standard. And so now back to the gray rabbi, what do you say about that? I like what Greg said about managing that. But talk to us about the gray and how to handle the issues that come up at a networking event regarding referral fees.

Yonason Goldson: 17:34

Oh, boy. You know, certainly if, if someone sends me business, I am more than happy to express appreciation gratitude in a form that may be monetary. You know, if I'm, if I'm getting if I end up with a 5000 or $10 $10,000 keynote, that I wouldn't have had. I mean, I would pay an agent, a percentage to get me that gig. So I would be perfectly happy to pay a fee to somebody who provided it to me. I think the question really is on the other side, if I am referring someone, yes, the person to whom I'm referring may be perfectly happy to pay me that fee. But does that now call into question my own integrity? Even if I did it with no expectation of compensation? The fact that I'm accepting it, and as you said, I can no longer in the your story, Greg, of people who said, Well, I won't, I will make refeed I mean, that's, that's, that's very impressive. Saying that ethical standard, I will not give a referral to someone that I know is going to compensate me for it. Because that tarnishes my credibility. And so sometimes the email if something is objectively and this is why it really gets into the gray, even if something is objectively on the up and up. There is still an effect on us. That may be unnoticed may be insidious. And it's it's that making little compromises that gradually pull us into areas that we never intended to go and then we discover were there. We don't know how to get ourselves out anymore.

Greg Peters: 19:53

I agree entirely. It's it's one of those things. It's okay well, in the exam in the in the case of mice see As coach, I did refer people to him, I did gain the benefits that he specified. But he's also my sales coach. Obviously, I stand behind this because I paid a lot of money to be his, you know, in his group. So I can honestly say, but then what happens when it's someone else that I not making use of their services. And all I know is, you know, the five minutes that they've talked, talked to me about how good they are, this is all you know, it all, all comes back to there's reputation involved here. And there's a reputation if it can be damaged in ways that you never intended.

Yonason Goldson: 20:37

We're coming up to the Jewish High Holidays, and the eve of Yom Kippur War, the Day of Atonement. We start off with a ritual called Kol Nidrei. Which means all vows. And if you would read through the English, you would you would be astonished. Why does this have anything to do with the holiest day of the year? It sounds like this dry, legalistic manifesto of how we are annoying all of our commitments of the previous year. And the the deeper meaning of it is that we often say things without fully thinking through what we're saying, we make commitments that we're not really fully committed to. And every time we do that, it's like we're we're binding ourselves in ways that we may forget about because we weren't fully cognizant of what we were saying, or we have all these things holding us back and tying us down and, and indicting us because we're not living up to the commitments that we made. And so when we come to this point, what we're really saying is, we want to start fresh. We want to be cognizant of how important our words are. Because when it comes down to it, as you said, Greg, the most important thing we have is our name. And the way people see us and the respect that we've earned, and that our word can be trusted, and that we haven't given any one reason to suspect or question our integrity. And if that's the standard we set for ourselves, and chances are, our dealings with others are going to prove fruitful, because people will recognize that.

Margarita Gurri: 22:51

Beautifully said, Rabbi, I love that. So Greg, given what the rabbi just said, if all the people listening are going to do a networking event in the near future, please help them prepare for it. What do they do with their mindset? What do they bring? What did they think about what do they do? Help us create a wonderful networking event?

Greg Peters: 23:16

Okay, well, it's a small order, we've got about five hours.

Margarita Gurri: 23:23

I just want perfection in two minutes.

Greg Peters: 23:25

Perfection. Okay, well, let's let's let's see what we can do. Well, first of all, as we've already said, that the focus always has to be on the other person. And when you're going to a networking event, remember that this is not your opportunity to sell, because no one is going there to buy. So any any sales effort you make is probably doomed to failure. It's going to be crowded, it's gonna be noisy, that's just not going to work. Go in with a different mindset go in the mindset of connection. I want to meet new people, this is your opportunity to meet new people. Now, for those who are uncomfortable, and I'm not sure and my daughter, my younger daughter, Abby is definitely a member of this group. She went to a new school into the she said, Dad, I'm all ready for school today. I brought my book so I don't have to socialize. I said, Okay, well, sweetheart, how about this? You can read your book. But before you read your book, how about you meet one new person

Yonason Goldson: 24:22

and find out their name?

Greg Peters: 24:24

I think a lot of times people are uncomfortable with the networking process because it's too fuzzy. They they're not sure whether it was a success or not. So I say, alright, well go in with a specific goal, a goal based on connection. So meet one new person and find out their name. Meet two people. Maybe meet one, especially if you've been there for a while you can meet someone and connect them with someone else there. Whatever it is, if you walk in with that goal, then you can walk out with a feeling of success that you've actually made a connection while you were there. And you've been of benefit to those around you And the more you can do that, the more you're seen as someone that people want to connect to, the stronger your network is going to be.

Margarita Gurri: 25:06

And so how do we do that? How do we present ourselves as a way that people want to connect with us?

Greg Peters: 25:13

Well, first of all, you actually have to walk up to people and talk with

Margarita Gurri: 25:17

them. Really? Short Cuts, really,

Greg Peters: 25:20

it doesn't mean, I

Margarita Gurri: 25:23

walk up to the person and say, Hi, my dad said, I needed to meet one person, what's your name?

Greg Peters: 25:29

Well, you know, it's not the best way. But it's better than not meeting anyone at all. If nothing else, I figured the other child probably has a father, which is giving them advice as well. And then they can complain about how bad their fathers are, given them a common point of reference. But I mean, it's if you think about it as almost like any other social event you go to, it's doesn't, it doesn't have to be all that different. You walk up to someone you say, Hello, you you ask them about themselves, be interested, be fascinated, the people around us are some of the most fascinating people you will ever meet just by asking them. I mean, yeah, sure. If it's a business oriented thing, you can ask them about, you know, where their, what their company is, what their business is, you can do that. But you know, what the best conversations I've had. So could you tell me what you like to do when you're not selling widgets? You know, I was chatting with this guy. One time, I asked him that he was an accountant, I think. And I asked him, What do you like to do when you're not being an accountant? He said, I love to fly kites. So I'm really I said, So how long have you been doing that? It's all since I was a little kid. And then my big question, the question that I always ask if someone's been doing anything, whether it's their job or their their, their hobby for longer than three years, ask them what's changed. Because there's a good chance that not only has something changed, but they're very enthusiastic about it. And I'm this guy with his kites, I got to learn more about kite flying than I. But you might think it's boring to listen to someone, honestly, I think I was listening to him for about a half an hour, you might think it would be boring, but he was so enthusiastic. That's cool. Really, the best connections we make are when we meet someone in their passions. When we meet someone in their interests. That's when we really can connect us to human beings.

Margarita Gurri: 27:26

I think that's lovely.

Yonason Goldson: 27:28

And one of the things that I've picked up and you know, network is just coming back for me. But, as you say, asking questions that are not the typical questions. Because I say what do you do? They give me a one word answer, and there's nowhere to go from there. It's yeah, I mean, you can go on Tik Tok, you can go on read articles. I mean, all these questions you could ask, you know, what are your three favorite movies? What are your three favorite songs? You know, what do you do when you're not doing this? So many ways you can open up a conversation, give people an opportunity to talk about themselves. And that warms up the relationship, I can show you one thing that I just started doing. I have buttons made. By coincidence, I have one in my pocket right here.

Margarita Gurri: 28:16

What a coincidence.

Greg Peters: 28:21

What makes your day love it.

Yonason Goldson: 28:23

So I went to a networking, the first networking event I've been to in person since COVID. And I was wearing this button. And no one commented on

Greg Peters: 28:34

Oh, you're kidding me.

Yonason Goldson: 28:35

But I had more confidence walking up to people. Because I anticipated that if there's nothing if there's nothing to get the conversation started, someone would look at the button and remark on it. So even though it didn't do what I thought it would do. It just put me more at ease. Yes, so that I could enter into conversation with others.

Margarita Gurri: 28:59

That's a million dollar idea.

Greg Peters: 29:02

My my mom's husband one time he was going to a networking event. And he normally he had his name tag, which had his name and his business. Right underneath that he grabbed a second one and wrote Costa Rica on it. Because he and my mom loved to travel there. That's one of their favorite vacation locations. He was surrounded the entire evening by people who wanted to talk about Costa Rica. It's basically it's we have to be willing to be a little vulnerable. We have to be willing to share of ourselves. If we want people to want to connect with us.

Margarita Gurri: 29:35

That's entirely true, isn't it?

Yonason Goldson: 29:37

And I think that's a good tie in back to ethics, that if I don't make myself vulnerable, let's put it the other way. When I make myself vulnerable. I'm demonstrating a willingness to trust the person on the other side. Yes, if I'm willing to trust you, it makes you more willing to trust me. And if we're With trust worthy, then there's going to be a natural gravitation to one another. Yes.

Margarita Gurri: 30:12

It's interesting. As a psychologist, one of the things that I find the funniest is that people who are enthusiastic with a strategy going into networking, sometimes get so excited that they don't really listen, because they're waiting for the next thing they're going to say. And even when they don't have the strategy, they'll so you'll say something. So okay, it's, well, I used to, like, you know, and they're there, you know, back to me. And I think that resisting the pull of back to me to truly being curious,

Greg Peters: 30:43

that is actually something I have to work on myself. Because being an analytic. When someone asked me a question, I answer the question. And that's, I'm done I when I answered the question, and I've had to always add to words.

Yonason Goldson: 31:02

And you

Greg Peters: 31:04

know, at the end, if they've asked me about what I like to do, this is what I like to do. And you

Margarita Gurri: 31:12

can you can even avoid answering if you want, and you can just say what a great question. What answers have you gotten here today?

Greg Peters: 31:20

Oh, I love that. That's great.

Margarita Gurri: 31:22

Yeah. And one of the things that Brita Miller was the president of our Michigan chapter of NSA, when I first joined when I first moved to Michigan, she gave everyone instruction go around, meet somebody, and introduce them to someone else. You had mentioned that. And so I have taken that as the platinum rule. I talked about someone and I think about who maybe should they match up with. So Greg, come here, come here, come here, come meet the rabbi, he has a really interesting way of thinking about stuff that might be a great match for you. And then I introduce you guys, and then I get out of dodge. And I liked that I took that from breeder Miller. And there's something to learn from everyone.

Greg Peters: 32:03

Honestly, that's a great way of actually one of the one of the challenges if you get to be a good conversationalist, people are uncomfortable when they're at a networking event. And so what they'll often do is they will grab hold of you if you're a good conversation, and they will not want to let you go because it leaves them alone. And they're, then they're left trying to find a new conversation.

Margarita Gurri: 32:22

I call them the Klingons. Yeah, and, and so then you're introduced Klingons, to the rest of the Federation,

Greg Peters: 32:29

exactly in a matter of, you know, because there are all sorts of techniques where you can just kind of separate yourself from them and go on your way. But you're leaving them alone. And I would imagine that kind of leaves them with a bad taste in their mouth.

Margarita Gurri: 32:42

Yeah. And you don't want to abandon people or make them on top. So you match them up. And then you, you you know, peace out.

Greg Peters: 32:49

Even if you even if you don't know a lot of people, you can always go to the organizer and say, you know, who else can we meet here? Who else do you recommend that we? And the organizer, chances are knows everybody there anyway, so Oh, have you met Bob over here? Let's go or introduce you. I mean, their whole goal is to make the event as as beneficial to everyone as possible. So

Margarita Gurri: 33:11

yeah, I think it's kind of fun when you got somebody who is gracious like that, but he's not talking about themselves. And it is pretty common for people to not ask them about them at all. And I find that fascinating. And every now and then you get someone who says will tell us about you, but most of the time they won't. So that one person that does ask, I think everyone will remember. Yes, it's a very strong connection, to do that unexpected, of getting beyond your comfort zone of talking about me to talk about the other person. So I find that it is an exciting opportunity to stand out to be very thoughtful and caring.

Greg Peters: 33:53

And I weighed the way I look at a networking event. So you know, when we're all together together and you're having conversations, first of all, the conversations aren't gonna be particularly deep. It just, it can't be it's, you're, you're in a very crowded room. And there's all these people around you. And it's noisy, and I'm hard of hearing anyway. So. But I try to talk only about 30% of the time because really, I want to find out enough about that other person in our five to 10 minutes to know whether we have any chemistry together. Because if we don't even if we're to perfectly wonderful people, we're never going to have a great networked connection knit, great professional connection. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that to perfectly wonderful people. I mean, we know them all on our lives. We've got this great friend over here, this great friend over here and they do not like each other just because they don't mesh and that's okay. Because there are plenty of other people you can network with. So, talk for you know, 30% of the time find out if you want to have a further conversation later. That's when you do that follow up. That's when you have these. I love zoom. I love being able to actually connect with people, you know, different In a state or a different country, I can I can chat with them and have a deep conversation that I couldn't have standing in a crowded room or on a zoom webinar.

Yonason Goldson: 35:12

They'll say, if not presume we wouldn't be here right now, because that's how the doctor and I met. That's true. That's how we structured our whole this is relationship.

Margarita Gurri: 35:21

We did and we met for the first time recently at the National Speakers Association and influence

Yonason Goldson: 35:25

Oh, marvelous. And we couldn't get along with each other there.

Margarita Gurri: 35:29

But we just pretend we pretend ThoughtWorks

Yonason Goldson: 35:33

when I was in college, I had a took a psychology course, just one. And when I smell that on you, yeah, you know, I got over it mostly. But one day, it would have been a long weekend. And we came in and the professor said, Okay, we're going to pair off. And one person is going to talk about what they did over the weekend. The other person is going to respond without using the words I me or my Oh. And boy, did that take a lot of conscious effort. But that was one of the most valuable classes I

Margarita Gurri: 36:18

ever had just the life. What were the words? I mean, what?

Yonason Goldson: 36:22

My nine? Okay.

Greg Peters: 36:24

So basically, you're not allowed to refer to yourself,

Yonason Goldson: 36:27

right? You have to respond to what the other person said. I liked that. And Stephen Covey says that most people don't, don't listen with the intent to understand they listened with the intent to reply, training ourselves to be responding. And later on it discovered this was the whole Dale Carnegie approach is get other people to talk about themselves, and they'll think you're a brilliant conversationalist. You know, it comes from taking a genuine interest in people. Yes,

Margarita Gurri: 37:01

yeah. And even if you pretend to have a genuine interest, you might actually spark some genuine interest. So it's a, it's a good place to start, no matter how skilled you are. So Greg, you were talking about zoom? As a follow up? What are some other follow ups to we've identified some people maybe we feel some chemistry with or we want to know more about or work with, or refer to what then? Well,

Greg Peters: 37:27

I mean, the very first step is, of course, follow up is, hey, can we have a longer conversation, you know, the five minutes standing in a crowded room is not going to get you a deep, deep connection.

Margarita Gurri: 37:37

And you ask them during the actual networking event?

Greg Peters: 37:40

I well, I mean, you can follow up afterward. But then you have that whole telephone tag or email tag and someone drops, drops the ball at some point, and you might miss out on that opportunity. So why not? Hey, Margarita, had a great time chatting with you, before I let you go, can we just schedule a coffee together so we can actually have a deeper conversation? Always Greg. And, you know, it's so simple because we all have the smartphones now. It's so easy to me, we can easily schedule something next week, as opposed to, you know, the back and forth thing. I mean, I don't know if if things have changed since I first started networking, but back in the day to try and do that you can be four weeks, six weeks out before you actually saw them again, and you really only saw them for five minutes. And now you're suddenly walking into a coffee shop and looking around going. I'm not sure you remember what they looked like. So then you're walking up to everybody is your name Zelda by any chance.

Margarita Gurri: 38:37

I learned a trick from a woman who was 95. Really, she met me. We made a conversation. We decided to meet afterwards, she took her phone. Let me do a selfie with you honey so that I can put that picture in their context. I love it. And she did it with her. Because then she kind of remembered where she was what she was wearing. And, and it was brilliant. Because she didn't have to say, Well, I'm not sure I'm gonna remember you. So it was perfect. I want a picture from my context. Perfect.

Greg Peters: 39:05

That is genius. Oh my god, I

Margarita Gurri: 39:07

can come up with that.

Greg Peters: 39:08

I'm gonna steal that. Yeah,

Margarita Gurri: 39:12

yeah, I steal from the best. And I don't remember her name. So I can't even give her credit. But

Greg Peters: 39:16

what was the thing you give them credit the first time the second time someone told me that the third time is mine. So it was all my idea.

Margarita Gurri: 39:24

Either that or I could just say it was Greg's idea. So you know, any workout. Alright, so then what then? So we make a coffee shop. Zoom time. What then? What's the agenda for this follow up?

Greg Peters: 39:37

Yeah, that's the big trick. Because it's not just a conversation. It's a conversation where you are looking for opportunities to be of service. You are listening with that purpose in mind. Because the more you are able to be of service to them, the more often you can be in contact with them, the deeper the connection you can make. And I tell people I said you know, if you're calling up someone and saying

Yonason Goldson: 40:00

Hey, I'm just checking in.

Greg Peters: 40:03

What they are hearing is, do you have something for me? You can't call them that often with that. But if you're calling them up and saying, Hey, Margarita, when we were talking, you mentioned that you were looking for a new editor for your book. I know this great guy, his name is Ken walks. Berger. He's, he's a member of our Yeah, I was gonna say, Yeah, you know, would you would you like me to send you his information. I mean, if I if every time I call you, I have a potential solution to one of your challenges. I can call you whenever I want, you'll look forward to hearing from me. And in fact, you'll probably come to me when you are looking, when something's cropped up. It's a challenge in your life. And I

Margarita Gurri: 40:41

have called you on a technical issue before remember, I had called yesterday and I need to problem solve on this. And I called you, you were very helpful.

Greg Peters: 40:49

Well, and that's what we want to be, we want to be the person that people are coming to. So that when you know when we are looking for help. I mean, and this is the cool thing is that when I said earlier, that should almost always be about them. Every once in a while it gets to be about you. If you've helped people enough, they're going to turn around and say, hey, you know, you've been so helpful, what can I do to help you? And in fact, it will happen almost every time if you actually come out and ask, How can I help you? They'll turn around and do the same. So you have to be ready for that. You have to know how they can help you and it doesn't always necessarily mean oh, you know, I'm looking for $10,000 speaking opportunity if you hadn't have one in your pocket. But it might be you know, any, any resource that you need access to any advice you might need. And you know, do you know someone who works for this particular company? I would love an introduction to them.

Margarita Gurri: 41:43

I think that's wonderful. Well, so many people say they're going to call but then they don't? Is it ever too late to follow up? When we pass his two week passes? 10 1215? When is it too late? Or is it ever? Ah?

Greg Peters: 41:59

Usually, if someone says they're going to help me, I might follow up with them in about a week. Hey, you know, I was really appreciate your being willing to connect me with them? Is there anything you might need? In order to do you need my my email address or my phone number or anything? Just just to give them a little reminder, but if they don't, you can't hold it against them. Now,

Margarita Gurri: 42:19

how about is just follow up for a Connect for a second connection? A second hit? Yeah, that's really all it is. Is it ever too late to follow up? How about a year later? Oh,

Greg Peters: 42:29

you're talking about with that other person? No, you know, as far as I'm concerned, I mean, they didn't follow up with you. So it's it's okay. Don't know. Yes. If you're talking about that first meeting. If you met him for five minutes, then yeah, you've got about a week if you don't follow up in a week, they've forgotten about you. It's that's just the way it goes. Sorry. You don't want to call up someone and you're going to Greg Greg, who? That's that's not the response you want. But follow up within a week

Margarita Gurri: 43:03

that I think that's reasonable. And then you don't have the guilt of having to have this long list to follow up with. Yeah, it's interesting,

Greg Peters: 43:11

then the when it comes to the more long term relationships that you build, you know, if there's a gap in their own it, you know, Marguerite, you know, I, you know, I feel bad that we haven't talked in like the last two years, I just saw your name in my email archives, and I realized we haven't had a chance to chat, I would love to reconnect.

Margarita Gurri: 43:31

I like that. And there's no apology. So that's good.

Greg Peters: 43:34

I mean, it's because they didn't contact you either.

Margarita Gurri: 43:38

No. And I liked that too many people do false apologies. It's almost like a humble brag. And I liked that you didn't do that,

Yonason Goldson: 43:45

that I really liked that. Because that happens that there are people that we want to be connected to, and we just, it just doesn't happen. And then we feel this awkward as well. Now it's too late to reach out.

Greg Peters: 44:01

The only time is too late is when it is truly too late. And I've had those situations where you know, like, my, the guy who used to be my best friend in college, and I kept thinking, I gotta reach out to him. I gotta reach out to him. And then one day on Facebook I see as obituary. Ah, so it's like, Oh, yeah. Okay, that's a reminder, you know, don't

Margarita Gurri: 44:20

have to wait till you're in heaven and you can catch up. Yeah.

Greg Peters: 44:25

Oh, your lips to God's ears.

Margarita Gurri: 44:28

Well, speaking of god's ears, Rabbi, do you have the word of the day?

Yonason Goldson: 44:33

I do. But before I do actually have to apologize to our podcast audience. Because I talked about a button that I had made and I showed that the camera and then I realized that not everybody is watching us. Some of us are listening to us. And the button says what makes your day of course, the idea is to get people to think about something that they like, and make them feel comfortable sharing it. Good catch Rabban Okay,

Margarita Gurri: 45:00

It's alright, so the word of the day, sir,

Yonason Goldson: 45:01

the word of the day is you lost city.

Margarita Gurri: 45:07

have no clue. All right, what great tale. Does that mean?

Greg Peters: 45:10

You lost it? You lost? Are you spelling on that?

Yonason Goldson: 45:14

Spell it too? Yeah. GULOSIT Why you que la city? Help me out here not familiar with that all right?

Margarita Gurri: 45:27

stickiness,

Yonason Goldson: 45:28

it means it's in that glue.

Margarita Gurri: 45:31

But it looks like glossa

Yonason Goldson: 45:33

sounds like it means excessive appetite, or greediness. And it occurred to me that when we walk into a networking event, I often look at it like it's a smorgasbord. All these different choices for me to satisfy myself. Hmm. And if that's the way we enter relationships, as we've been talking, if if my first objective, my main objective is what am I going to get out of this? And we could have a whole show on that. I mean, wider relationships break down in every different contexts. It's because I'm interested in what I'm getting. And when I'm not getting what I want any more than there's no reason for me to be in that relationship. But if I enter in with the idea, how can I be of service? How can I create opportunities for myself and others? How can I broaden my network of attachments and connections? for everybody's benefit? Yes. Right. Not to indulge in that attitude of curiosity of what's in it for me, and how can I satisfy myself? But what can I bring to the table for us all together? That's going to pay off in spades.

Margarita Gurri: 46:57

I think that's a, that's a great word. Look at you is fired. Greg, what's interesting, why I asked you to be on this podcast is that I was on a Zoom meeting with a bunch of people and your name kept coming up. And I was on a podcast. I mean, I mean, I was on a Zoom meeting, I even forget which one, and your name kept coming up as someone who does networking, or someone who did the it or someone and your name kept coming up. And I thought, and that's how I met you the first the first meeting I went to, I saw you talking to someone and you were helping them. And I made a mental note and even wrote it in my, my iPhone, meet this guy. And I did come up some other time and say hi, introduce myself, I was new in the area, and was thinking of joining the chapter. And we didn't have much of a conversation I just introduced myself and and left because I was, you know, I had to go, but that's actually how I met you because you were being a service minded networker. So that's good. All right. So now now that we've got that covered, what are some final words of wisdom or call to action you have for our lovely and discerning listeners?

Greg Peters: 48:17

Well, you know, it kind of goes back. There's a quote that I heard ages and ages ago that I just I really liked. And I wrote it, make sure I wrote it down because I knew I would mess it up. But it was from Zig Ziglar. And he said, you can have everything you want in life, if you just help enough people get what they want in life. So really, the call to action is go out there and look for ways to be a service have conversations, be interested, find out you know what, what are their challenges right now? What are their dreams, help them avoid the challenges, help them find their dreams? Because all the good that you're putting out there, all the caring about the people around you, is what's going to come back to you. So that's really the final thought is just, you know, connect, make friends on purpose.

Margarita Gurri: 49:09

I think that is a great quote. And now the other question that Rabbi and I have been asking lately is what are you doing for fun? What's your next adventure?

Greg Peters: 49:21

Well, I am a huge science fiction nerd have been since my mom gave me my very first science fiction novel. It was Edgar Rice Burroughs, the Princess of Mars. Rabbi you're familiar with that?

Margarita Gurri: 49:37

Was a good one.

Greg Peters: 49:38

Yeah. You know, great pulp science fiction, but ever since then, I've been a huge science fiction fan. And every year now at Labor Day, I go down to Atlanta, Georgia, where I attend the Dragon Con science fiction convention. And it's usually between 60 and 80,000 fans that just get together to have a good time and share common joys so just got back from That's a lot of fun. And then my girls and I, my two daughters and I, we, we trained in the martial arts together. So we every week we're down there and you just never know every once in awhile, my eldest is giving me a quick punch to the ribs. And

Margarita Gurri: 50:18

is that the one that's coming up on her third degree? Yeah, she'll

Greg Peters: 50:22

be coming up on her third degree soon. She used to it's so much fun to watch them as they develop, you know, as they become their own interesting human beings. She is. She's big into flying. Now. She's a member of the Civil Air Patrol, and has been able to fly an airplane for the first time and Oh, my goodness, the excitement and squeals have not ended since.

Margarita Gurri: 50:41

What's the name of the woman's group for women's pilot 90 Niners or it's something with a nine.

Greg Peters: 50:47

I'm not familiar with that.

Margarita Gurri: 50:49

It's big in Michigan. I know one of the women who's one of them was is part of it. I say women I'm googling it women pilot. In Michigan. It's a it's a national thing. 90 nines. Okay. Have her check it out the International Association of Women pilots. And they have all sorts of things for they have an Eagles for women. For young women. Eagles club Oh, your daughter knows about the Eagles.

Greg Peters: 51:19

Oh, no, no, I this is all I mean, honestly, the Civil Air Patrol was news to me. So

Margarita Gurri: 51:25

yeah, have a check it out. It's a beautiful mentorship program and leadership program for young women. And they they go up in the air with with a mentor, oh, marvelous. And they get find time. So that that would be a great, great connection, or you have to let us know if that ever happens. I will do so that's that's absolutely wonderful. Well, you know what, you are such a dear. I love that you are sharing your amazing insights for the reluctant networkers out there. And the rabbi and I are happy about it, because we love the idea of people being of service and the mindset you have offered has, has a very powerful message with powerful possibilities. So we're grateful. Thanks so much, sir. You have some last words. Last words,

Yonason Goldson: 52:12

I hope I don't I hope they're not my last words.

Margarita Gurri: 52:16

Well, last word for this podcast. How's that? Is that better?

Yonason Goldson: 52:20

I think that for myself as a lifelong introvert it's when we when we enter into these situations, and we realize that most people are as uncomfortable as we are. And most people are eager for someone to approach them. Then the, it helps us in raises our sense of self confidence motivates us a little bit. And and then the additional point that you've made again, and again, Greg is, if I feel that I have something to offer, as opposed to just what can I get out of it. If we bring that not just a network met to all our relationships, that we're going to find our lives are much richer. And I hope that you

Margarita Gurri: 53:17

all make that happen for you. This has been the rabbi in the shrink and we think Greg Peters, and you can check them out as the reluctant networker.com. And you'll find him there. You'll find him on LinkedIn. And please do check out his book. What was the title of it? It's

Greg Peters: 53:37

Hello and a handshake.

Margarita Gurri: 53:38

Hello and a handshake. All right, and I love that title. You all take care of we'll see you on another episode. And Greg, good luck with that six degree I can see it happening in the near future.

Greg Peters: 53:49

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Unknown: 53:52

Thank you for listening to the rabbi and the shrink everyday ethics unscripted to book Dr. Red Shoe, Dr. Margarita Guri or Rabbi Jonas and Goldson as speakers or advisors for your organization, contact them at the rabbi and the shrink.com. This has been a doctor Red Shoe production