The Rabbi and The Shrink

#35: Giancarlo Pitocco - Three Simple Steps to Wellbeing

October 28, 2021 Rabbi Yonason Goldson and Dr. Margarita Gurri, CSP Episode 35
The Rabbi and The Shrink
#35: Giancarlo Pitocco - Three Simple Steps to Wellbeing
Show Notes Transcript

If I could get an hour of your time back, what would you do with it?

What is your brain chemistry telling you about how to live a more productive and fulfilling life?

Have we fallen into the fallacy of “down time”?

These and other fascinating questions are addressed when digital wellness guru Giancarlo Pitocco returns to join The Rabbi and the Shrink.

https://www.purposeful.nyc/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gcpofnyc/

1:00 Fred Rogers’s wisdom

You can love anyone if you understand where they are coming from

If we would take time to learn about people, we would feel affinity

The power of human engagement

 

5:00 Special effects and action give us a dopamine fix with little substance

We crave rapid-fire images and don’t have patience for genuine connection

“The only thing missing from any situation is what you’re not giving.”

~Marianne Williamson

 

8:00 Our phones help us avoid anything we don’t want to deal with

Five core insights to achieve digital wellness:

Attention

Values

Boundaries

Leisure time

Solitude

 

12:00 Larry Hagman’s Sunday word fast

The benefits of a technology sabbath

 Create structure in our overloaded lives

Create purpose-filled compartments to promote productivity

Brain chemistry dictates when is our prime time

Limiting use of technology

Taking responsibility for ourselves at work and home

 

18:00 Are we using our time wisely?

Bennet principle: the activities that require more energy leave us more energized

The fallacy of “down time” to regenerate 

Physical activities have more psychological payoffs than digital ones

The engagement of mind and creativity rather than disengaging through technology

 

23:30 What’s the difference between work and recreation?

Jogging, working out -- we do these because we understand they’re good for us, and we end up feeling better

 Why, Intention, and Will

We start with purpose, then commit, then follow through

Intention is your soul

Will is the connection between your soul and your physical body

 

31:00 Technology is designed to be addictive

SM platforms harvest our time and attention

FB have evidence that IG is toxic

 

36:00 How can parents help children develop healthy digital habits?

Enroll them in the process

Audit how you spend your time

 

40:00 No-nagging contract

What do we want to do?  What do we need to do?

Break up your day and create a schedule

Real wisdom comes from knowing why you do what you do

The paradox of Ben Franklin

 It feels good to exercise boundaries

Promote safety, trust, self-respect, courage, and love

 

47:00 The word of the day: enervate

To be drained of energy

We need to ignite ourselves into purposeful and meaningful action to energize ourselves

Boredom is the clash between ambition and laziness

 

52:00 As a family, pay attention to how you’re spending your time

“How do we feel about that?”

If I could get an hour of time back, what would you do with it?

Margarita Gurri:

Welcome to the rabbi and the shrink. It's a podcast about ethics unscripted. I'm the shrink Dr. Margarita Gurri and my favorite Rabbi

Yonason Goldson:

Yonason Goldson.

Margarita Gurri:

And we are delighted to have with us the repeat performer, Giancarlo Pitocco. Welcome, sir.

Giancarlo Pitocco:

Thank you so much for having me back. It's a delight to be with the two of you again,

Margarita Gurri:

we're addicted to you. So you, your whole thing is about digital stuff is distractions and increasing quality of life and all and you become one of our lovely, non distracting repeat things about cultivating healthier relationships. And I saw on your website, something I thought I'd kick off with that, and then we'll get the talk. And the greatest thing we can do is to help somebody know, they're loved and capable of loving, Mr. Fred Rogers. Why did you pick that sir?

Unknown:

hero of mine, Mr. Rogers, oh, my goodness, we're both from Pittsburgh, he did his all of his work in Pittsburgh, have wonderful memories of him and the lessons he teaches. And I think he, he got a reputation for being someone that was just kind of, I don't know, boring, or Bob Ross for kids or something. No, I love Bob Ross. But that, that calm, simple energy. I mean, the way he talked was so slow, but the wisdom that came out was so profound, the way he understood human psychology, if you heard him, if you still listen to him, you can go see tons of his videos on YouTube, and they've made movies and documentaries about them. Now. I think there's an appetite for an energy like his, in our modern times where we seem to be more divided. We're very quick to step on the gas pedal when someone says something that we disagree with, which, you know, fabulous that you too, can come from different perspectives. And I think you embody a lot of that. But I think fundamentally, what Mr. Rogers approach things from was this idea that you, you can love anyone, you can love anyone, if you really understood where they were coming from, the kind of life they lived, how they were raised, the experiences they've had, and the greatest wisdom traditions on earth often teach us that you would be the same as that other person across the table from you if you had lived life, through their eyes, their shoes. So I think it's a pretty fundamental insight about humanity that if we would take the time to really consider and understand where someone's coming from, we would feel that deep affinity for them that love that compassion, but we so often just gloss over that and skip, we don't have the attention span, to pay attention long enough to really understand something we want the too long didn't read the TLDR, the headline version of it, that glosses over everything, we do that to people, we do that to events happening in the world, you name it, we filter everything, and instead of seeing what's actually in front of us, we're not present enough. We don't have the attention for that anymore. So I mean, it says a lot. It's a it's a fundamental seed of a lot of the work that I do and how I try to approach things

Yonason Goldson:

you put me in mind. Sounds like a bit of a tangent, but I was at the gym working out and scrolling.

Margarita Gurri:

Let me imagine

Yonason Goldson:

I got an exemption, I got an exemption to workout. But an even worse, I was looking for somebody to watch on the television screen. And I came across this movie with Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall. I hadn't seen it before. It was right in the middle. So I had no idea what the plot was two people in an office having a conversation. And I couldn't pull myself away from them. No guns going off. No bombs exploding. No cars speeding, nobody's getting dressed. It was just dialogue and character development.

Unknown:

Oh, whoa,

Yonason Goldson:

that and you know, it was from an age when that's all they had to keep audience engagement. But it serves me as a perfect example of what you're saying that we want the flashbang we want the glitz we want we want everything really fast and really exciting and really bright and really shiny and, and, and there's no substance there. I mean, what is glitter? It's just it's a shiny paper.

Unknown:

It's dopamine trigger and we're all addicted to dopamine. That's why there's the trend I've seen lately is taking a dopamine fast, which means putting down all those things that are full of glitter, your smartphone, social media, even television, you know, take your pick, I mean, take a look at a move to your point, take a look at a movie trailer from this year and compare it to a movie trailer from 1995. Pre 2000. In in, you'll see a very different pace of cuts of the length of scenes that they show. Just like you're talking about any of Humphrey Bogart films, people are often shocked at how long a scene will go on for whereas now it's quick cuts. You look at a trailer, you're lucky if an individual cut it contiguous film lasts longer than two seconds in most trailers these days, especially with all the action driven films, they set pace by Cut, cut, cut, cut, it's it can be very disorienting. But we're This is part of what's happening is we're getting used to this level of dopamine, this level of stimulation. And when we don't have it, we crave it. It's it's it has recalibrated our brains to expect and demand it and feel bored. If we're not that's what happens because boredom is also that lack of dopamine. It's it's more than that. But that's that's one of the symptoms of boredom is the lack of

Yonason Goldson:

that we feel dissatisfied in our relationships. Yeah, we don't have the patience, to spend time talking to people listening in and hearing them talk about what's important to them, or just what they want to talk about. And you know, we're looking at our phones under the table or over the table, trying to get something to fill in that lack of, as you say, dopamine, and we're really depriving ourselves of true value and true connection. And then really the key to true happiness, because that all comes from relationships.

Unknown:

Oh, yeah. Marianne Williamson often says, the only thing missing from any situation is what you are not giving. And I love that kind of radical responsibility, whether it's a complicated relationship with someone or feeling bored, feeling upset about something, the only thing missing is something you're not giving is saying you have autonomy, you have control here over your own lived experience, and what's happening here. And I just love that. In any occasion, I'm thinking, you know, what, what is it that I'm not giving, but you know that instead of defaulting to our usual roles and habits, and the grooves, the patterns in our brain, think about, well, what's what, there's what I would usually do here, or what my job title says, I should do here for talking about professional setting or society. What is my role here? I'm a parent, or I'm a teacher, or I'm a take your pick, instead of thinking based on the label. Look, and listen and see what what can I give here? Whether we're talking about ourselves or something bigger? You know, for board. It's not just don't just reach for the phone, don't look for external things. Why am I bored? What do I really want? Am I craving real human connection? Well, then what am i avoiding Instagram? Yeah,

Margarita Gurri:

yeah, the rabbit and I often talk about ethics and ethical muscles. One of the things that my precious my phone does, is it helps me avoid anything I don't want to deal with. It's hours and hours and hours of yumminess without thinking, what what a wonderful a brain break. But it's breaking my brain giving my brain a break. And like Robert and I were talking about boundaries and setting limits and, and all of this. So I think rabbi, we're at the point where you and I, he and I were talking about having you back and talk about one of your five insights. So if you wouldn't mind repeating briefly, your five insights, and then we wanted you to focus on the boundary of the insights, because the rabbit and I devoted to helping people not only understand the ethics behind stuff, but what do we need to do to get there?

Unknown:

Oh, boy, yes, so boundaries, one of the most important things but the five insights really revolve around number one most importantly, we've already touched on it a bit here today is the power of your attention. And it being the the great superpower you've been given as a human being for creating the kind of life that you want to live. So attention number one, number two is values. So being in touch with the kind of values that are important to you that you want to shape the big decisions and small decisions you make in your life, whether it's the everyday stuff about what are the kinds of boundaries I need here and now or or whatever your values can can define that for you. They become the guideposts. The advisors to you if you can tap into What are my important values? So if we're talking about a family context, what are our values we want to live by. And the next one being boundaries I typically talk about as part of that, because they go hand in hand, if you have mastery over your attention, know your values, you can set some healthy boundaries based on that, that are really well informed and personal, rather than looking externally for other people to tell you what those boundaries should be. And then the last two leisure time, we've lost the fine art of leisure time, meaning how do we recharge our batteries, when we're not doing the things that we have to do those got to dues like your job being usually the biggest one, or your role in your family, whatever that might be, if for your spouse, or for your kids, or for all of them together? What do you do when you're you have time that you get to choose what you do with it. And we often choose things that drain our energy rather than energize us. And it's counterintuitive. We talked about that a little bit last time, leisure time. And the last one is solitude, solitude, probably the the most lacking and missing one on this list, maybe other than attention is the ability to be free from the thoughts and ideas of others. Joseph Campbell talks about having something called a bliss station, which is a place where I'm gonna butcher the quote, but it's like, have a time a day, or a place where you are, where you don't know what anyone knows you what you owe anyone, you don't know what's in the news headlines or anything like that. That means put the phone down, turn off the screens around you put down the newspaper and just be with yourself and be with nature be with be with the environment that you're in, but be free from information and other things coming at you that aren't your own thoughts and ideas.

Margarita Gurri:

So we wanted to address the issue of boundaries, but also how to prepare other people and ourselves for the leisure time in the solitude using the boundaries. Yeah. And you and I had talked about accountability. Robert, was there something else you wanted him to address before we let him loose on humanity?

Yonason Goldson:

No, but I think he just put me in mind. So I haven't thought about that a long time. I read an interview once with Larry Hagman. Yes, yeah, Jr. and drew Genie fame. And he used to get a practice. He didn't speak on Sundays. And all of his friends and family knew that he didn't talk. He took up a word fast. Every Sunday. And, you know, you really forced, you know, he did it because he wanted to force himself to unplug, and this was, this was before all our devices existed.

Margarita Gurri:

Well, by today, his thumbs will be going crazy. Well,

Yonason Goldson:

that's a good point. There's a thumb fast and good. But there is an idea of of a technology status, not just technology fast that people really unplug, one day a week. So you know, again, setting these boundaries for ourselves, it takes discipline, it can be scary. I mean, yeah, you know, in our culture, the actual Sabbath, we don't use electricity, we don't travel. If you don't say, Well, my gosh, 25 hours where you can't do anything. Isn't that boring. It's all how you look at it. Because it's 25 hours, but you don't have to do anything. And you can just be with your friends and your family and your community. And those boundaries, then help structure the rest of our week. So anyway, but I'll turn it over to you for the Amplified. As

Margarita Gurri:

always, all yours, sir.

Unknown:

You hit on a really good point there that I spend a lot of time talking to teams about in particular, which is creating structure, and more so now than ever, because people aren't in offices, that gave us a lot of structure, having to go into work every day. being away from home, being away from other responsibilities. You're isolated in an office from aspects of your personal life that brought structure into your life in a way that we don't have when we're at home and all the lines are blurred. And so boundaries. I'm so glad we're talking about it because it's a something that we're being called upon, especially those of us still working from home to create and enforce more than ever because we used to depend on our environment and the change, you know, going to mute to do that. Now. We've got to be more self regulating. And that's what boundaries are about is having some discipline and how you spend your time being really intentional. About how you spend your time and the kind of structure you want to give your day, your week, your month, your year, not a lot of people think in these terms. But it's really helpful because boundaries creates space for you to apply your attention purposefully navigate by your values, if you are creating some compartments that are purpose built time, compartments that are purpose, for thinking about, when do I do my best work? There's a wonderful book, I think it's by Daniel Pink called when, and one of the things that he explores in there, the whole theme of the book is like, when is the ideal timing for certain kinds of things. And one of them is when do you do your best work, and through all kinds of scientific studies, they've, you know, explored the how brain chemistry works and energy moves through different kinds of people. And there are certain times a day that work for you to give your best gifts to whatever your, your your practice is. So if it's if you're a writer, a lot of writers talk about how they do their best work in the mornings or the nights, a lot of creative folks are on the extreme ends of the spectrum. But some people you know, it's, it's late morning or early afternoon, finding your prime time for accomplishing certain things where your, your energy, both physically and emotionally, feel aligned to the task at hand, it's important to be sensitive to those kinds of things. So I'm speaking more from a professional or creative standpoint, but those are timed boundaries in terms of using your energy really well. There are other kinds of boundaries, like, how do I let my kids use their devices and get online and chat with people and use Snapchat and send photos of themselves and their lives? And in moments when I can't see what they're doing? I don't know what they're sending. I don't know what they're talking about on there. So how do you set healthy boundaries there? And I think, you know, in those contexts, a lot of times we set boundaries out of fear, and we just want to clamp down and say, You're not allowed to use these things. Or it's like, I don't know, I've never been on tik tok. I don't know what they do on there. And it's kind of like a shrug. Like helplessness, I see that with a lot of the families and parents and the audiences or when I've consulted them, one on one goes one of two ways, total fear, and they want to clamp down and make the internet, you know, Fort Knox for them in their house, or their like, I don't know, it's, it's the kids these days, or it's the schools, you know, not regulating it enough. I'm not seeing enough responsibility there. And that's what boundaries are about first and foremost, taking responsibility for yourself, and how you choose to apply your attention and behavior in different ways or keep certain things in and or keep certain things out, let certain things in. Yeah, we'd love to see more of that more, more thoughts about I noticed that when we all use our devices at dinnertime, or have them available, but we don't really interact with each other so much we go through mechanical process of eating food and staring at our phones, there are a lot of people for whom that's that's a typical dinner time, you know, to parents and kids around a table and smartphones all in their pockets are on the table.

Margarita Gurri:

And families don't talk to each other because then they need a consultant or coach. I tell the families spend time at meals, have a phone pile phone stack, where you don't touch the phone, talk to each other. I know it can be dangerous. But you know what they end up doing? They end up scolding, or planning or talking about things that that aren't fun, they ruin that time you were talking about the discipline. So how are you advising people to use this scary? unhook time on digital time? How do you advise them to use it wisely?

Unknown:

Well, I advise them to use that time for activities that give them energy that leaves them feeling energized. And there's a great concept called the Bennett principle that Cal Newport talks about in his book called Digital minimalism, which I just love. Great, great insights in there. But he talks about how it's shown that the activities that require more energy from us to perform, tend to leave us feeling more energized. So it's an investment of your attention and your effort in order to get positive energetic returns. And let me explain what that means a little bit. So after a long day, a lot of people like to go home and turn on TV. And they say I just want to turn my brain off for a while so I'll watch something stupid on TV or a few episodes of bla bla bla insert show here. And they think that's how they need to recharge their batteries because they've been busy all day, their brains. been engaged, they're stressed, they're tired, they just won't turn it turn off my brain at the end of the day. And we think that's going to recharge us. But it doesn't, it leaves us feeling less energetic afterwards, less recharged. So I don't know anyone who walks away from a couple hours of watching TV or scrolling through feeds that jumps up feeling like Ah, man, that was time well spent. And I'm ready, you know, to call it a day and go to sleep. So I can do this all over again, never, never. But the tasks that day. And it's counterintuitive, right? You think, well, I've been thinking and working and dealing with people and communicating all day, I just want to do something where I can kick back and relax. And by all means, do a little of that. But if you want to feel better, if you want to feel more energized, with this time, and less bored, frankly, especially if you're going to not use those kinds of things like your phone and social media and television, choose activities that are demanding of your attention and mental energy. And that could be something as simple as putting together a puzzle with your family. Some kind of shared social activity that is often physical, and has a result, a payoff at the end now puzzles, a very simplistic version of that where you have to problem solve and work and search and hunt. And you're using your hands and your eyes and pattern recognition to put this thing together. And at the end, you have a completed picture. Fabulous. But this could be things like home improvement activities, it could be playing a board game, it could be having some kind of hobby or project knitting painting, take your pick. Typically, people respond well to a physical activity, rather than something that is digital. So you know, having a physical manifestation of your efforts and thinking, if you're a writer, or a painter, or building something for your house, or fixing something that's broken, that has tremendous psychological payoff, that's that's I mean, if you get dopamine from that, that's fabulous, because it's a positive activity that's creating this positive reinforcement inside your mind. So finding those kinds of activities. And it's easy to find these kinds of activities. And it can be as simple as playing a game together, having a conversation, getting a deck of cards that prompts interesting conversations, if you're at a loss for what to say to someone that you've maybe lived with for 20 plus years, to bring up new ideas and topics, it's all possible. But it requires the engagement of the mind. And a little creativity or problem solving, which feels counterintuitive often because we tend to use our phones or TV in a lean back context, leaning back both physically, but also mentally kind of disengaging the brain and letting what's on the screen in front of us whether it's four inches or 40 inches dictate what's going on in here. Right. So that's a big part of it is taking some responsibility for for that and saying, I'm going to choose to expend some energy even though it feels counterintuitive, after a long, long day. And back from it, I'm going to get this rush of good energy and feel more energized, more accomplished. And maybe even thinking about, well, tomorrow after work, I'm going to do this or this weekend, we're going to do all these other activities instead of scrolling feeds or watching TV or playing around on the internet. So that's that's a, you know a little bit about it. But I'll pause there before I ramble on and on. No, you aren't rambling rabbi.

Yonason Goldson:

So much of it has to do with mindset. And, you know, what's the difference between work and recreation? You know, I watch people jog. And then wonder why in the world would anybody do this?

Unknown:

ality?

Yonason Goldson:

Yeah, it's, you know, you see people at the gym, male, sweating and grunting. And, you know, nobody's forcing them to be there. They're there because they recognize the value. And I mean, I schedule my workouts in the in the late afternoon, because that's when I start flagging and not very productive, but I've been working all day I get up early, and I just don't feel you know, I'm sorry about feeling being productive. I just, I'm not productive. So exert myself. It's good for me. And it also gets things moving again. So they're having that, you know, attitude, focus that, yeah, while I just feel like sitting back and letting everything go. But intellectually, I can understand that I'm actually serving my own interests better. I'm serving my own physical and mental health better if I develop the discipline, To make use of time in a way that is rewarding, and it's just there's a lot of human psychology and there is no doctor.

Margarita Gurri:

Yep, thank goodness keeps me busy. With

Unknown:

why intention and we'll having a strong why being having a close connection or a tight connection to the outcome, you want to see. intention, setting the intention of I'm going to get there and will your willpower to actually do the things that deliver on that and get you to the why it's those wi wh the three layers that are so important, if you don't have a strong why the other two will never follow. If you see a y which can be you know, seeing someone else that you know who has accomplished that thing, oh, they started working out and they look great. I want that to bingo, you've got your strong why. And so you set your intention based on that that's like oh, I see the North Star over there, I want to move towards that my intention is to go there. So I'm going to orient myself towards that. But then it's the willpower, that's the machine that gets you there. If you don't engage that willpower, you can keep staring at that star, but you're not going to move towards it. So it's those three layers that you just hit on so eloquently, that that a lot of us don't even pay attention enough to get to the why.

Margarita Gurri:

And what are the layers of let's identify it. So it's easier for everyone to remember when layers off.

Unknown:

So typically how I think about it is intention is your soul. It comes from your soul, it's the the divine side of you that saying this is what would be good for you. This is your intention. And will is the connection between soul and physical body and and the sensory experience of the body, which can experience some inertia. We have brains with deeply grooved patterns in them of how we behave. And you have your soul saying, do something that doesn't fit into one of those patterns that requires tremendous willpower, which is that connection between the two? And I thought I

Yonason Goldson:

was the rabbi here. Sorry, if I'm out of my depth, no, you're saying I love the way you just formulated that. Because the intention does come from the soul. And the will is the connection to the physical and there the sages teach nothing stands before will. And what does it mean? If you really want something, and you're prepared to do what's necessary to get it? heaven and earth, we'll just get out of your way. Yeah, why don't we succeed? Because we're just not that committed. Either. We don't want to that much or we're not prepared to give up what we need to work better way to say to invest what we need to, to get there. Yeah. So

Margarita Gurri:

I think sometimes we don't know how to, I think, I think a lot of times well, you know, as a psychologist, one thing that that always strikes me is people are afraid of failing. So they're afraid of sitting with their own thoughts. Whether you're silent for a minute or a whole day, or whether you're disconnected from your precious for a minute or for a meal, or it's still my precious, I don't care. I'm still gonna call my precious. I love these wonderful, I want to be buried with my precious, okay. And it's such a lovely shade of red.

Yonason Goldson:

This episode right here.

Margarita Gurri:

My precious anonymous, that's afterwards okay. But the one thing I've learned though, is that if you really want to do something, make sacred time for it. Not just ease into sloppily. If you want to watch a Netflix show, or like my daughter and son in law, they want to live on a yacht. So they're always watching the YouTube that talks about couples and families living on yachts, and they study that it's in the background a lot, but it's also part of their North Star shooting for that star. So it's in the back but they're paying attention and they do it intentionally. my other daughter has a daughter who just hit Middle School haven't helped me okay. And she's so far still likes us and is nice, I don't know which is gonna turn we're looking for it. But they make tic tocs together. And what's interesting is that, you know, we've had that big fight about the TIC tocs and you know the the verbal discussion about as good as about whatever started well, it's not good or bad. It's what you do with it. And I think that we kids with parents, if they're too young, they need to know we have their logins. And I believe they need to know we're going to look at it with them in a sharing mode, if you can catch it young enough, where they still showing off and sharing, it doesn't look like you're spying, but rather that you're sharing in their creative endeavors. And that's one of the secrets is to pay attention and get it early, if you can.

Unknown:

Tremendous wisdom right there, that's for sure. Being involved in their lives, not just their lives in the traditional sense, but there's a whole other side of life happening in the virtual environment. Now through these social platforms. Yes, the the CO creation of content with a child on these platforms, that's powerful engagement and involvement in their lives. And to your point, and I agree wholeheartedly. The way you use these technologies determines its positive or negative impact on you and people consuming what you create, to a large extent now that there is some, there are some unhealthy things built into these technologies. Yes. And if we're not aware of them, they can get the best of us. And what are those? Well, it's the fact that these, the number one thing is the way the experience is designed to, in particular, with feed based social media, yes, they always talk about the the algorithm that determines what's going on in the feed, that is the collection of data they have about you, as you scroll through your feed, you better believe that all of these social platforms are keeping track, they have a profile of your behavior, you know, they're they're tracking what you engage with. And they, they see that, oh, you really spend a lot of time watching videos from these kinds of people, or these kinds of hashtags, or these kinds of themes. And what are they going to do, this is a very simplistic version of how it works, but they they will show the next thing to you that's most likely to keep you engaged. And then watching and watching and watching these, you know, you just tap and the next video shows up this one's boring, tap or swipe, and you're on to the next one. And it's fabulous. And it's easy and it you lose 3045 minutes of your day in the blink of an eye, you don't even realize it because they've made it so easy. They've showed you stuff that they know will keep you hooked long enough so that they can show you a few more ads, make some more money off of you. And what's the what's lost here. Your life, your your time. Are you more valuable than money is your time because you cannot earn more time you can earn more money, you cannot earn more time and we are giving our most valuable resource away to these platforms that are engineered to harvest it from us as much as possible in ways where we don't even realize it's happening that whole like Oh man, I was just you know, I got a notification from tik tok. I jumped in there and 30 minutes were lost. I didn't even mean for that to happen. I meant to go do the phone thing. And Robert

Margarita Gurri:

and I were talking about the black hole of the internet. Yeah, that we get sucked into it. You know, and many am it's a twister. I mean, is that vortex? You know,

Unknown:

it really is. And it's designed to do that to you. And, and there's a whole other array. I mean, it just came out in the Wall Street Journal this week that Facebook has internal evidence that Instagram is a toxic platform for young women. They've done the research, they know it, they've designed it in a way that doesn't protect people, it's like we're all driving these cars is the equivalent of driving cars without safety features. And when the government or people like us say like the social platforms need to implement safety features, and then they come back and they say, Oh, well, I mean, we have billions of users, the cost of implementing those kinds of safety features would would, you know, make us so much less profitable, and we wouldn't be able to build as many cool new features that you all love so much, because we'd have to divert those engineering resources and that money towards building out safety features. We just don't know if that makes a lot of business sense. That would be like the car companies. When Ralph Nader is testifying and saying, you know, we we aren't building these vehicles safely. They need seatbelts and airbags they need crumple zones, them saying we make so many cars a year, you know what, how much it would cost for us to implement those features. We'd have to lay people off we'd have to raise prices, that that that uh, they have all these stories, but it sounds so ridiculous now. Right? The idea is us giving them permission to not implement those features for those business reasons. Now it's gonna make them more expensive or whatever,

Yonason Goldson:

your doors for the pilots, right? Which 20 years ago would have changed history in ways we never would have noticed.

Unknown:

Oh my gosh, we never would have noticed Yeah.

Margarita Gurri:

I remember when we smoked on airplanes, and there was a smoking section, you remember that. And people used to make fun of you, if you complained. And I think that's one of the things that the rabbi and I keep on addressing is the issue of groupthink. And how we judge things and how easy it is to not grapple with the gray, which is the name of his book. But we want it black or white, that this is right or wrong. I mean, it's fascinating how that goes. So so then let's go back to the practicality. Many parents and just to be very frank are failing, at their attempts to help children create lives of harmony, where they have time for self and others, time for the community, time for thinking, time for learning from others time from learning from mistakes, all those kinds of things. So, Sir, how do you advise them?

Unknown:

Well, one of the first things is to enroll them together in the process of, Hey, we want to change some habits that we have here around how we spend our time, or set boundaries, or use these devices or social media or television, instead of saying, you're doing it wrong. And we're going to set some new rules in this house starting today. Yeah, man. Yeah, I mean, that, that me versus you or us versus you approach doesn't work, as well as enrolling them in a group process of, let's pay some attention to how we're using our time, and how we feel when we do these things, and enroll them in the process of setting boundaries, hey, let's pay attention to how we feel when we watch TV all night, or you use Tick Tock all day, or pick, take your pick of thing that you feel like isn't serving you well, or just everything, you know, I mean, I began my own journey with this by doing an audit of how I spend my time,

Margarita Gurri:

isn't it? It's,

Unknown:

I guess it can be either you do

Margarita Gurri:

it by the five minutes, 10 minutes? How do you do your How do you recommend a time audit?

Unknown:

Well, you know, no one has the time to keep a very specific journal, I mean, ideally, you would keep a log of how you spend every minute of your day. But that's that's not really practical. So what I say is use the Notes app in your phone, or if you carry a physical journal or something at regular increments of the day, just reflect on how did I spend the past couple of hours? You know, was I looking at my computer doing XYZ task? was I talking on the phone? Was I scrolling through social media? Was I eating dinner with my kids and having conversation? Yeah, take an audit of those things loosely, so that you can at the end of a week or two, calculate, well, you know, how many hours am I spending in front of a screen? And how many of those hours are spent on things that are productive or work related, or creative and meaningful? Or are just total distractions zoning out and watching television or scrolling feeds endlessly? and get a sense of how are we doing? Let's take the temperature of the room, you know, maybe there's no problem here, because I've had parents come to me that are already you know, they've taken the fine tooth comb through their entire family's use of all these things. they've implemented all these rules. But for them, it as a recovering perfectionist, it resonates. They are continuing to chase the long tail of this and trying to expunge it to a degree where they're actually doing more harm than good, because they've already set so many rules. So it's a great way to see how are we doing here? And so I'll have them do that. I'll ask them some questions. You could pull up your phone right now and go into your settings app and see how many hours a day are you spending on average on your device? of that time, you know, what are the top most used apps or visited websites, all of our phones do this now. So that's a great way to take a temp check. And that's really the first step here it is acknowledging that maybe there's some change warranted here and taking stock of Well, what do we need to change? I imagine that's how you work with your clients to some degree to they like it, they might come to you and say, I need your help. I don't exactly know what the problem is. But I know there's a problem here and I want your advice on it. It's it's a similar thing.

Margarita Gurri:

They come to a psychologist or consultant, whether it's a family or business coach, like with a rabbi and I use usually they come with an idea of what the problem is. And it's usually not identified accurately. So that resonates they say it's this 12 year old will later on you realize the 12 year old is the voice piece for a source of disconnected on happiness in the whole family. And they're often the courageous voice piece for it. So I love misbehavior, because it lets us know there's something that needs Have you looked at? I've created something that I think sounds like some of what you do. JOHN Carlos, I call it a no nagging contract. It's a family agreement. And everyone sits down and they talk about first, what fund we want to have this week, next week, next month, next month. And you look at all the fun stuff. And next, you look at the obligation Las Vegas, what do we need to do? So your school, here's the doctor's appointment, here's the prayer cycle, here's the, you know, the coming of the beard time, or you know, whatever I mean, you put all the things you need to do. And then you kind of create rhythms, and then everyone can decide what would work better? How can we have more fun? So I divided in two meals being Cuban, it's from waking up to lunch, to breakfast, breakfast to the time you leave for school or work? And then of course, you you know, you have the work time it's or school time is their home? And then you have when they come home to dinner, and then dinner to bedtime? Yeah, so you you break it up. And then a lot of times I give kids the dry erase magic markers, and put them on windows or doors that are glass, say come up with a schedule, and a list that makes sense. And every each of the kids come up with proposals, it's fun, and they're always smarter than we are. And sometimes they're harder on themselves than we are. Well, that's

Unknown:

brilliant. I love it so much. It's, it gets back to something you were saying before about how there's a little bit of fear of the unknown, or we just, you know, we don't know, we don't know, we don't know how to even begin on this process. You know, when we were talking about having a Y and an intention and willpower. It's like, Well, that sounds great conceptually, like science, like, very few people would say, I don't want that. It's the question of Well, how do I turn that from concept or theory into practice. And what you've done is, you don't even need to know those other things, the conceptual things, the technique that you've given, makes it happen facilities. Now it's always helpful. People know the why. And know the concept. That's where real wisdom comes from is when you can explain why you do what you do instead of just Well, I'm really good at this thing. I don't know why. But I am so fabulous that you've got that and that I talked about how Ben Franklin would plan his days because he was very methodical about creating structure in his day. And I love there's like a excerpt from his journal that talks about how he structures his days. And that's what you're talking about organizing, you know, what's the good stuff, what's the got to dues that are maybe not as fun the chores and homework and things. But when you take it all in account together, it actually relieves you, the parent of having to be the nag and only focusing on that stuff, because they're naturally going to do things spend time on the things that they love. But if you can paint that picture together and look at it holistically, I think there's so much wisdom in what you just laid out there. That's beautiful.

Yonason Goldson:

You know what I really like about it. You mentioned Ben Franklin's that, and I'm fascinated by him.

Margarita Gurri:

And when you remind me of them some rabbi,

Yonason Goldson:

well, we'll see if that's a good thing or not, but

Margarita Gurri:

it's long ways. Yeah.

Yonason Goldson:

But you know, the thing about him is brilliant. He was, you know, way ahead of his time. He we have these records of him about how to discipline your life and then how to make decision. But in his personal life, he was incredibly undisciplined. You know, at the end of his life, he was carried around by but you know, for people holding one of those, those, what they call the lazy, the princes, the Indian princes, because he was so corporate once he couldn't, he couldn't carry some weight. Yep. And they don't even know how many children he found.

Margarita Gurri:

I didn't know that. Yeah,

Yonason Goldson:

he you can have and it goes back to john, what you formulated about the will, which is the connection between the intention with the willingness to put it into action? And what what I agree is so I really like about your your, the plan you laid out doctor is that you've sort of created a system that builds its own structure and builds its own boundaries. Yeah. Because if you when you set boundaries, I mean, you you've written about a book about anger, I believe that your children love to touch boundaries. And part of it is this subconscious desire to make sure that parents are really in control. Yes. Because especially adolescents who are conflicted, right, they they want to be independent, but they know they're not ready to be and little children who want a reaffirmation that someone's in charge you watching over them. And as we allow the boundaries of our lives to break down, we are creating a sense of insecurity for ourselves. Yes. Which just leads to so much anxiety and uncertainty and then we retreat into these devices because that gives us the dopamine that offsets the anxiety. Whereas a really simple formula like yours can help us recover that sense of order and structure and boundaries in our lives. So well done. Truly Yes.

Unknown:

That trust it's create some self trust. That's what if you can get someone to start taking those actions, creating the no nag contract, for instance, it sets into motion a positive reinforcing effect, this cycle of good because once you go through the process and you start getting the hang of it, it you feel the benefits of it, like it feels good to exercise willpower and to enjoy the benefits from it. And boundaries are our willpower, in the sense of time or behaviors or habits.

Margarita Gurri:

Power, because you can tell the kids can say shut me up. If you do what you're supposed to do, when and how you're supposed to do it. I can't say a thing, but well done. Yeah, it gives people power and like with the router sitting safety, because a good boundary makes you feel safe enough to take risks to grow. Like what you're doing Giancarlo you're, you're trying to do things differently. And obviously, if we don't feel safe or loved, we can create new things. Not as easily. So we can but not as easily.

Yonason Goldson:

Yeah, that's for sure. Wow.

Unknown:

Yeah, that's if you can see that things are better if I do things differently. You know, everything could be an experiment, instead of like, Oh, I don't know about that. You know, the fear thing? Well, let's try it out. Let's see what happens. Let's do the research. Let's try this. No neg contracts, see how it goes. And if the results are good, maybe we'll do more of it. And if the results are good, maybe life gets a little better. And our dynamics or relationship at home gets I think,

Margarita Gurri:

I think that's wonderful rabbi, I think maybe it's time for the Word of the Day when we come back to you. Maybe john Carlin can give us a call to action on this issue of boundaries and, and creating a more fulfilling life on purpose. Well, I'll

Yonason Goldson:

introduce the word of the day, one of my favorite quotes. Boredom is the clash between ambition and laziness,

Margarita Gurri:

who say that again, wait, pissy?

Yonason Goldson:

boredom is the clash between ambition and laziness? Is this your quote? Yes, wasn't that slick?

Margarita Gurri:

It was very slick, actually, I'm gonna make a meme out of it.

Yonason Goldson:

That's fun, I

Unknown:

want to unpack that.

Yonason Goldson:

To come back again.

Margarita Gurri:

Oh, sharks. That sounds good to me.

Yonason Goldson:

That we want to achieve. I mean, that's, that's part of human nature. We were builders, we're creators, we want to impose or project our vision of a better world on our reality. And for whatever reason, we're not sure how to get there. We're afraid of failing, we're afraid of succeeding. We're, we're afraid when people are gonna say, or we just don't want to spend the effort. And so part of us wants to take action, and part of us wants the sedentary must be given to inertia. Now the result is this feeling of, of anxiety that we call boredom. And we distract ourselves so that we don't have to deal with it. And that introduces the word of the day, which is enervate. I learned this word in the 1970 movie, the album of pussycat with George Segal and Barbra Streisand. And it became a ritual running theme through the through the movie. But what really caught me about it is there's their comment that enervate means the opposite of what people think it means. Because most people aren't familiar with the word. It's not used often. And it sounds like it ought to mean energize. When in fact, it's the opposite. To be enervated means to be drained of energy. And what you've been articulating, john Carlo is all the ways that we enervate ourselves. Because it's like, you know, it's like a car engine. My dating was 100 years ago. They use spark

Unknown:

plugs anymore.

Yonason Goldson:

You need you need the spark to light the fuel to make the engine Go, which then burns more fuel in order to propel the car. We need to spark ourselves we need to ignite ourselves into action, purposeful, meaningful, rewarding action. And that gener that expenditure of energy will energize us. But if we think we're going to recharge our batteries by being completely passive, we'll actually become more enervated and be less inclined to move ourselves for.

Unknown:

So good. That's like, no,

Margarita Gurri:

no wonder people are frustrated. I loved your quote, Rabbi, I thought that was great. Boredom is the clash between ambition and laziness. way deep, sir. I'm putting that in the chat.

Unknown:

Haha. I wrote that one down, for sure. That's fantastic. We'll post we'll post the meme. Yes, post the meme indeed. Beautiful. Well.

Margarita Gurri:

So Charlotte says before you do your final things, young Carlo. Thank you for mentioning fear of success along with your failure rabbi. Often fear success comes from fearing our successful reorient relationships. So we lose the people we belong with. I think it's especially with women. Many times, women have lost a lot if they have taken the plunge in doing successful things. And maybe I am adding that because it's my experience. Would you guys agree with that? Or no?

Yonason Goldson:

It's more complicated for women?

Margarita Gurri:

I think so. There'll be a time that it isn't. Now that we're mindful of, of pronouns and all of that maybe, maybe that will change, I don't know, be interesting. feels like it's changing. It does feel like it's changing. I think they'll always be some stinginess with people with other people's success and people not wanting others to outgrow them. And that's human nature. That's not the same thing as a cultural phenomenon, you know? Yeah. All right, your last call to action, sir.

Unknown:

Last call to action. So, as a family, start paying attention to how you spend your time, individually, together. That could be as simple as pulling up the phone settings, like I was talking about, and taking a look at how all of us are spending your time on these devices and what you're using them for, and asking yourselves, how do we feel about that. And most people see social media as in the top tier of most used apps on on their phones and that five hours a day plus that we spend on average on our devices. Ask yourself, if I can get an hour of that time back every day, what would I choose to spend it on? Would it have been the same thing or something else? And what is that something else? And what do we want to cultivate together with that time, if we were to all agree to get that back. So in, in all of that, that I just said, is paying attention to how you spend your time carving out a chunk of it as a boundary for something new to grow, and enrolling others, whether it's yourself, enrolling yourself or enrolling others in your household with you in a process of filling that time, with something that is enlivening that gives that spark that ignition into action, to get away from boredom, and spend some meaningful time together.

Margarita Gurri:

Wow, that is lovely.

Unknown:

Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me here today, too. It's always so much fun to explore these topics with you too. And I always feel like there's so much left on the table when we're done in terms of fruitful things to unpack. That's what I appreciate about the both of you. Just really wise and thoughtful territory comes out on every time.

Yonason Goldson:

I'll definitely look forward to future conversations. And yes, please

Margarita Gurri:

do join us again. Exactly. Do

Yonason Goldson:

you have a last word for us?

Margarita Gurri:

Oh, I always do. First off, I'm gonna go along with what john Carlo had said. I'm gonna give everyone a challenge. Ask yourself today. Did I do something fun? First thing in the morning. I believe that we are corrupt. If we wake up for work, or some sort of obligation. I think we need to wake up for something that has meaning for us. Love sex, children, God, cooking, doing something reading. I think we need to start with our values. And I do believe if we wake up to our values, I think it'll be easier for us to want to wake up and therefore ease Do you want to go to bed without a screen? Because going to bed with a screen keeps you awake. Not only do the lights mess with your cones, but I don't know about you with the pressures it's hard to, you know, Netflix knows me. You want another one? Yes. Another one. They don't even ask me anymore. So I have to put in that thing. Please ask me each time or I might just forget and roll into the next one. And pretty soon I'm bingeing instead of sleeping. So that is my next thing. Are you living a corrupt life? By letting others and work set the tone for you? That's that's my challenge. All right, well, we will see you all. And I'll I'll put in again, as always the website for john Carlos, so you can check it out. Let me see purposeful, NYC. That's the one I have. And then I want you to look at the rabbi and I are working on getting people to be able to react more, I put two links there, one for our Facebook and one for our LinkedIn is the rabbi in the shrink. And then our website is the rabbi in the shrink calm. So let us know what you think ask us questions, so that when people like john Carlo comes in when he does come again, then we'll have really great challenges to post him so he can fit your needs. All right, everyone. Thank you for joining us on the rabbi and the shrink. see you every Tuesday at 12:30pm pt bye