#40: Kira Day - Meaning is the New Money

How do we nurture our passion when the world around us stands in our way?

What’s the difference between passion and indulgence?

How can employers increase passion?

These and other important questions are addressed when passion guru Kira Day joins The Rabbi and the Shrink.

https://thepassioncentre.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kiraday/

1:00 What is the passion gap?

Too many people don’t care about their work

Confusing passion with mission sends us down the wrong path

Often we need to come from a place of darkness to appreciate light

4:30 Our pains become our passions, and tension produces balance

What is the Passion Test?

What are the internal and external drivers of passion?

Passion makes us better

9:00 The four passion buckets

What are the underlying reasons for our passions?

1. Internal -- natural interests
2. Social environment -- connections and safety
3. Functional -- support and development
4. Psychological -- autonomy, mastery, purpose

Different people can be passionate about the same thing for very different reasons

14:00 Why are we passionate about spectator sports?

Gladiatorial battle or hero’s journey?

If entertainment distracts us, does that make us less passionate?

18:00 What’s the difference between passion and indulgence?

Passion = meaning x investment

Purpose = passion shared

Overindulgence reveals imbalance

24:00 How can employers increase passion?

Care more!

Put more heart into a job by allowing people to be people… give them a reason to be loyal

You can’t buy loyalty with money but with meaning

28:00 Why do ethics produce passion?

Why is procrastination a gift?

31:00 Word of the day: Imputrescible

not liable to decomposition or putrefaction; incorruptible:

Keeping passionately alive ensures our spirit won’t putrefy and we won’t corrupt our core values

Passion is the lift inside of us which connects us to the world around us

34:00 How do we nurture our passion when the world around us stands in our way?

You -- obstacle -- passion

Believe in yourself and your purpose, then obstacles will move out of your way

39:00 With passion anything is possible

When in doubt, pretend to be you

Transcript

Margarita Gurri: 0:03

Welcome to The Rabbi and the Shrink. This is Dr. Margarita Gurri CSP Dr. Red Shoe, and everyone's favorite rabbi.

Yonason Goldson: 0:12

That me.

Margarita Gurri: 0:13

That's you, sir

Yonason Goldson: 0:15

Yonason Goldson.

Margarita Gurri: 0:17

And today we're delighted to have with us Kira Day. Hi, Kira.

Kira Day: 0:21

Hey, guys, I'm so happy to be here. I thank you so much for having me.

Margarita Gurri: 0:25

Thank you. And I have a secret. Her thing is passion. And it's the rabbi who found her which tickles me knowing. So I'm one of the things that I was excited about when I started reading about your stuff is that you have understood that one of the things to focus in on to make people happier and work better, is the passion gap. So why don't you define that for us? And then tell us how the heck did you get to this business of passion?

Kira Day: 0:59

I would I would be, It'd be my pleasure. So the passion gap started with my own gap. It's it's kind of both both intertwined. And I'll get to that a little bit later. But really what we're seeing right now, and studies done by Deloitte and Gallup and a ton of others that look at the way that we're experiencing work. And how we're feeling about work is that 87% of people globally, are disengaged in what they do. And what disengagement is all about is that they don't care about what they're doing, where they don't care about who they're working for. And so a big part of passion is to care. So if we're not caring, then what is that doing to not only us, as holistic people seeing as though we spend the vast majority of our work of our life working, but what is it also doing to our work in the form of productivity of really actually caring about the things that were doing inside of the workplace, and about how we're showing up as we're doing those things as well. So and that affected me, personally, which is what got me to actually starting to study this work as well. I was just talking to just just a minute ago, about a little bit my personal history, but a lot of my work, at least growing up and getting into the working world was based, was based on changing my spots. And I, you know, my parents had a fire when I was younger, and we we grew up with a lot of financial challenges. So I was very ambitious, I wanted, I wanted to be able to break that mold, for myself and for them, which got me into the career that I was in. And it was a pretty long stunt. But that career was in sales. And I thought I was really passionate about it for a while. But what I became to realize is that I was confusing. My passion was my ambition. And what that led me down was this road of just constantly driving forward with no actual real enthusiasm, but more of just trying to get to that goal, that thing, right. And that ultimately got me sick. And so with anyone, when you're faced with those types of life, crisises or, or getting sick, it forces you to look at the things that you didn't know to look at before. And I actually found a lot of my own health back when I started to really understand and hone in on what passion really was, and why I needed to take that path, versus any of the other paths that I was previously.

Margarita Gurri: 3:37

Well, that's good for you and good for all of us.

Yonason Goldson: 3:40

That story to care that that resonates, you know in. In the biblical narrative of creation, it says there was evening there was morning night was created before the day. And there's a tremendous profundity in that, that we live a life of contrasts. And very often we have to come from a place of darkness, if we're going to experience light and you said, You came from a family that struggled financially, and that drove you to be successful. I grew up in a family that was not upper class but was very, very comfortable upper middle class, and I wasn't happy. And so that directed me to look somewhere other than money and you know that going into career and teaching I sort of realized that but you know, the the passions in our lives often come and emerge naturally out of the challenges that we face.

Unknown: 4:43

I say all the time our pains become our passions. And there is this and you hit the nail on the head there is this beauty in that polarity that we experienced not duality, because it's it's that contrast that we Need to create the tension. And that tension is what creates the change, or some kind of energy bursts to really get us back and function into what I now know is alignment. And I never even had the vocabulary for this before, you know. So it really did it, I did need to go down, go through that. And I am very, very blessed. That I bought sec. Like that's that was really the one thing, the only thing at that point that could get me off of where I was going into what I'm doing now.

Margarita Gurri: 5:30

Well, I'm just putting in the chat, the link for the Passion Test. I think it's brilliant that you created this passion health test. And what are you finding? I mean, I think it's wonderful, you're giving people two things, an opportunity to think about things. And the rabbi and I both took the test, and we have some interesting conversations about some of the questions and what it brought up for us. But then we get to have results. So tell me, what are you finding?

Unknown: 5:57

Yeah, so this test came about very much by accident. We did like honestly, initial days, I wanted to, I wanted to see who my profile customer was, right? Because, because what I do is I I've helped people that mirror my story, you know, so people who are stuck in, in maybe a career that that they're just not happy in anymore, or it's not driving them in a way that that is healthy, and they want to make the radical change, but they don't know how to get there. So in the initial days, it was like, Okay, well, how do I know that people are feeling pain? And they're not feeling passion? Like, how do I actually know that? So I needed to understand what were the drivers of passion. And I read a lot, I went into a lot of the psychological journals, I started to kind of unwind what were some of the formats of what creative passion but to be honest, and maybe it's my research skills I couldn't find for the life of me anywhere, where where we had identified what causes passion. I think Angela Duckworth in your book grit, identified that there were internal and external influences that come together, but no one was talking about what those internal or external influences were. So I literally started from scratch and make making some guessing in my own, like, empirical way. But at the end of it, I was like, How do I know though that this equates to passion? Like? That's, so I just asked a very simple question. And it? And it's the question that you guys both answered at the very end, which was, you know, how, how passionate do you feel about what you do? Right? Very simple. And when I first started to look at, you know, the questions and that answer, I started to notice something really interesting, which was people were really closed from that perspective, in terms of aligning the questions with their, with their subjective experience and passions. So I was like, okay, so this there, there might be something here. So I started to tweak and over, over some years, I got it to a factor of 99.6% accuracy with getting this subset of questions aligned to the to how passionate they were. So that was interesting. But what was more interesting, is that when we asked the question, or when we started to look at, so we went into some schools and corporations with this test, and and we wanted to know is it doesn't hold true when we get into the 1000s of people in a dead. But what we didn't expect, but we kind of had a hunch around was if they had higher passion health scores, how do you get impact productivity? How did it impact attendance, and what we noticed was that people with higher passion scores produced better so they had these scored higher from a grade grade point average, as well as they attended more than classes, which kind of makes sense to me, right? Because if you're more passionate, then you're gonna show up more because you're, you love what you do. And you're probably going to put in more time and more work and more energy, more effort doing that, which will naturally get better at what you do. So those things started to really paint a picture on important passion actually, is when it comes to not only our well being our psychological health and all of that stuff, but also in terms of our performance and how we're showing up.

Margarita Gurri: 9:32

So I read that you discovered like 15 factors or whatever that contribute to passion. What are those? Or at least the key

Unknown: 9:41

ones? Yeah, so So I broke them down into four main buckets and then flushes them because 15 is such a big number. It is what I found was that as a culture, the way that we talk about passion is very object oriented, or task oriented. So if If I say something like, I'm passionate about basketball, because the language because our English language, basketball at the end of my passion, our focus goes to that thing. So traditionally, our model is, you know, I'm not doing what I'm passionate about, because I don't know what I'm passionate about. Or, you know, I know that I'm passionate about basketball, but I'll never be a famous basketball player. So I'm, you know, I'm I have to settle in life and do this thing that I could never find happiness in, because I can't be this famous basketball player. And so we've got this very simplified view of what passion is, and we assume that it's this one thing. So I think it's very empowering, that I was able to identify, but it's about it's about these 15 things. And as a matter of fact, none of those 15 things have to do with basketball, or have to do with this one thing. What it has to do with is the underlying areas of why you're passionate about these things. And if I can understand why I'm passionate about basketball, I can take that same formula and apply it to a million other things I can get really innovative with how to express and understand my passion. So the four buckets that I placed these 15 things in his one bucket called internal. So your internal is, are the things that naturally gravitate you to something, the things that you're naturally attracted to the things that that you naturally find important that interests you that you're great at, we all have this combination of these four to five things that that really sparks our interest and make us come alive a little bit. That's one component of the four. The second component is our social environment, actually, the teams and the people that were around, and how safe we feel around those people to express our internal things, right? If we're unable to express our internal things, because we're scared of criticism, or we're scared of, of, you know, being humiliated, or any other of those factors, that we're going to keep repressing them and suppressing them, which gives us no chance of experiencing passion. And then the third part is functional, which is how is your environment supporting your ability to feel to feel safe, right, so there's people there's environmental factors. And then the last one is psychological. And Dr. Margarita, you, you, you probably know this one very well, because it comes out from Ryan Daisy's work. And it has to do with with our autonomy or mastery and feeling a sense of purpose. And when we're able to hit all of those functions, all of those, all of those sectors, then we're able to actually really express ourselves. Passion is about expression, right, but not expression just for the sake of expression, expression of our natural core, who we really are, internally, and how our environment has shaped who we are internally, in order for us to feel that sense of that's that sensation of freedom. So if we go back to the basketball example that I used in the past, if I put five basketball players in front of me, I use this a lot. And I say, you know, if I were to ask each one of those basketball players, why they're passionate about basketball, I can assure you, I will have five different answers, because it's striking them in a different way. One could be an example, and I've actually done this before, but one could be the example of you know, it was it was something that really created some solid solidarity inside of the family, when they were growing up. And it was something that the family would get together on and, and really there were, there would be a lot of bonding, which would ignite some really good positive feelings. So by the time you know, this person reached of age, they would have gone into basketball, and it would have naturally have inspired some of those some of those things for another person, it could be that they played, you know, and when they got onto the court, and people started to see their passion, they are starting to see their talent, they could have been really kind of like a team could have been built around and it would have ignited a sense of belonging and that's why they would have been passionate the the the combinations for why people are passionate about things are so varied and so diverse, but that's what makes it so beautiful. And it's also the last thing we talked about the last the least really

Yonason Goldson: 14:24

I'd like to dive into your basketball analogy. Because it really struggle when you when you think about where do you see large groups of people demonstrating tremendous passion? The thing that comes first in my mind are sporting events.

Unknown: 14:39

Or singing or, or bands. Yeah, yeah,

Yonason Goldson: 14:42

yeah, but But you know, that's an interesting comparison there but just to think about sporting events. I can understand people playing sports and being passionate about it. But spectating is is a really peculiar thing. Phenomenon. Because what's it got to do with me? I mean, I live in St. Louis, it's a big baseball town. You know, everybody loves the Cardinals. And they usually pretty good. So it's not too depressing to be to be a fan. But what what am I doing? I mean, my kids actually got me into watching baseball. But then what happened is, the players started changing so frequently, that I couldn't keep track of who they are. And I lost that sense of the personalities. And it's simply watch grown men hitting a ball with a stick, no matter how talented they were, it just wasn't able to keep my interest. No, do we look for passion is spectators because there's a gap in our own lives? Because we are generating that passion internally? And if that's true, what should we do about it?

Unknown: 15:59

That is a fascinating question. No one's ever asked me that before from a spectator perspective. You know, and honestly, it reminds me of like, the gladiator days, as well. It's just pure entertainment. Able to live vicariously through these people that are doing things that that maybe we wish to do, it reminds me almost of the hero's journey, you know, and, and watching and watching, like narratives and movies play out in a way that, that where we're rooting for because psychologically on some, on some level, we feel a connection to their journey. And we are, we are experiencing it as people experiencing their journey as being

Yonason Goldson: 16:43

destructive for one second, because we mentioned the gladiators. I mean, I've been saying for a long time, we're living in the Roman Empire, the Roman Empire, they provided bread and circuses, they gave people food, they give them entertainment, and this was the way of keeping the population passive, so that the elite could live their life have orgies and access. So I mean, is that are we a danger that

Unknown: 17:10

that's very, that's very interesting that you mentioned that. And I do feel like there's a lot of entertainment that is used as distraction. And the more distracted we become, the less apt we are at looking at the things that are right in front of us. And that is the kind of society unfortunately, that we're living in today. And I think the entire pandemic is showing us how disconnected we have become to just the social order of things in my

Margarita Gurri: 17:43

head. Indeed, and we have become keyboard warriors. We're spectators over tweets. And I think that what you and the rabbi both alluded to is, I believe that many times we hide in our little desk chairs, rather than fan our own passions, and explore what is our sense of meaning? What can we do to contribute to the world other than add more vitriolic tweeting? What can we do to make the world a better place for ourselves and others? Which leads me to a question that Robert and I were talking before you got on passion? I see passion in various ways. Talk to me about one sided passion, versus 360 Passion.

Unknown: 18:33

Can you elaborate on that or

Margarita Gurri: 18:35

just so I think some people say they have passion, but it's really just for themselves. It's only what they think and feel. Yeah, I don't I think that's indulgence, not passion. And they may have a passion about it. But I in my mind, and maybe I'm wrong, which is why I'm asking. I don't see that as passion. I see that as someone being indulgent with their desires and with pleasure and the rabbi's and I have talked about pleasure getting mixed up in passion. Versus a true passion, I believe, like you were talking about to passion helps people work better together, contribute more, attend more, things like that. So please speak to one sided versus the 360 Passion.

Unknown: 19:20

Okay, so to do this, I'm going to break down my simple formula for passion. So my simple formula for passion is passion equals meaning times investment, right? So that again, passion equals meaning times investment. So it's doing something that I find meaningful, that creates that sensation of goodness in my body. Now, there is two ways of doing this. And this is where passion and purpose kind of comes in. So if passionate was meaning times investment, purpose is passion, shared purpose is being able to take that passion, that thing that I find meaningful and share it with another person in a way that they find meaningful and that transaction and by its nature, is this Super, like value added combo. And that can really set off just this positive feeling amongst community amongst people. That's that's what inspires good business, good relationships, all that stuff, and good value inside of the marketplace. But you're right there is this component of how we end our relationship with our passion that can be considered AI centric, meaning, you know, like, it's for me, and I try and I try my best to, to, to look at, well, what is it in that person's life that's causing them to want to hone in on this one thing for only them? Could it be these other factors that may be evolved involved that we're not seeing? Could it be their upbringing? Could it be? Could it be that they were, you know, brought up to be in service all the time, and not ever able to explore their own interests or the things that that really drove them? That's causing them to overindulge? Because ever every time I see an overindulgence it tells me that there's some imbalance that's happening in the system. Right? So I'm thinking, You know what, so my brain goes to why is there an overindulgence? But to be to answer your question, there is this there is this eye center component. And I guess that's just the whole nature of freewill. And people getting to choose how they want to experience and explore and express that passion. Sometimes people want to choose that it's for them. And, and, you know, it's, is that okay, I'm not sure. And then for others, they want to take that passion and move it towards more of the purpose line where they not only invest in the thing that they find meaningful, but they get a lot of pleasure in, you know, helping other people that will also find this thing meaningful. And like I said, there's a whole army of other neuro chemicals that happens at that stage. So and it's an it is a very, you know, some positive game that you play, when you start servicing, serving your passion to the world, it's, it gets you on a completely different trajectory. And there's a lot of fear in that as well, that people can experience, it's something very different to play for yourself, than it is to play for other people playing for yourself to be very safe. It can, it can be very satisfying, and very safe. And you never have to confront yourself. But the moment you take, playing in front of people, there's a whole step, there's a whole other growth that needs to happen for for for that, for that to show up and take place. Like I say this to people all the time, when I used to sell for, you know, Samsung Electronics, I was selling for another company. So it wasn't like I was I never felt scared about that. It was it was a job and and I can go out and I can do this great job, the moment I had to sell for myself, there was something very different about that, right? I'm taking my passion, something that I care so deeply about. And now I have to show this to the world. And I have to deal with rejection. And what if they don't find value in it? And what if this thing flops, like there's a whole bunch of other things that starts going around? That is very scary. So I don't know if I'm answering your question in any way, shape, or form. But those are just my views on, on, you know, the the I centric versus, versus the 360 degree sharing of passion,

Margarita Gurri: 23:58

I think is great. And I have to say it's obvious that the fear was worth the risk. I think you're nailing it.

Unknown: 24:05

Thank you.

Margarita Gurri: 24:06

So the advice you would give all over the place with the COVID going, playing all sorts of things in people's minds. There's fear, there's loss of jobs, there's new wear masks, you fire people, they're not vaccinate, there's so many things playing in people's minds, right. So what do you suggest to employers so that they can remove barriers to passion? So they can invite a wonderful passionate

Unknown: 24:36

workforce? Honestly, care more?

Margarita Gurri: 24:41

Ah, how do they do that?

Unknown: 24:43

I think traditionally, we have created I mean, and I, I don't want to generalize because there are organizations that do it very, very well. But there are many organizations that don't do this very well. And we have been raised in this in this side. In this organizational, cultural dynamic, where we feel as though when you show up at work, your personal self is outside of work, and we cut off the humanity so that we can do the task. And when we become very task centric, we can objectify our people, and make them feel like they're just these robots, they're to do a job, which again, takes the heart right out of it. And what you want to do is you want to put more heart in. And the way to put more heart in is to allow people an opportunity and a platform to be people. And also to get interested about their interests, get interested in helping them to explore what's meaningful to them, because where they may not see a connection to their job today, if you take them down that journey, or you help a facilitator, bring someone in to help them facilitate and bring them down that journey, they can start seeing things that maybe they weren't seeing before, realize that they are more connected to their work than they previously thought thought that they were. And when you start bringing in and navigating those conversations, it changes the game for most people. I think, underneath it all people want to be loyal. We want to have community, we want to do those things, I think that the way things are set up environmentally, it makes it very hard for people to to achieve that state of loyalty, especially if they feel like they're just a number or they feel like you know, they they're replaceable like these, these aren't things that are going to help create a good relationship.

Margarita Gurri: 26:44

Those are soul killers are. And I say this

Unknown: 26:47

all the time. I don't know how it happened, it's probably, you know, been passed down to the past 150 years. But, and it's changing now. And I'm excited about this change, because there's a huge opportunity to facilitate this conversation in a more meaningful way. But I've found that the relationship typically between employer and employee have been a very narcissistic one, whereby it's all about the employer, and it's never about the employee. And it's like, we think that that's okay by giving them money, or giving them more money. But that's never been okay. And it's almost like going out on a date, and having to hear your day talk about themselves and then you entire time. It's never fun. But that's what we've done inside of the inside of the employer employee relationship. And I think things are breaking down now. And people are beginning to realize, hey, what about me? Like, what do I get out of this, besides the money and I say this all the time, way of the future. And the way of now is that meaning is the new one, you're gonna have to learn how to get back to that identity and create more meaning, if you're gonna keep your people. It's just as simple as that.

Margarita Gurri: 27:59

That's a great tweet right there. Meaning is the new money. It's a great meme. Rabbi, I'm sure you have some juicy thoughts about all that she's been saying. It's pretty impressive.

Yonason Goldson: 28:09

I mean, I love the language he used to care. If you go on my website, you'll see one of my mantras, which is that ethics builds trust, trust demands, loyalty, loyalty inspires passion, and passion drives productivity and prosperity. And it's why I was so excited to have you with us. Because what is ethics ethics is an awareness of my position in the world, the impact my actions have on those around me and taking responsibility for that. And when I take responsibility for myself in my behavior, and when I project my sense of purpose and mission, then that is naturally going to draw me to others who are going to be inspired are going to take that they're going to want to be part of that mission, they're going to have me make me part of their mission. And that's where loyalty comes from. And when we're all working together, we become passionate. And a group of passionate people in pursuit of a meaningful purpose cannot fail, simply can't fail. And so I think you've really articulated beautifully many of these principles in a way that really touched a doctor, wouldn't you say? This is just fundamental to human psychology?

Margarita Gurri: 29:27

It is and I think that cara de has found a way to bring passion to the issue that's so boring. How do we get people more engaged and productive and whatever the way we've been teaching, it is boring. There's nothing boring about passion you even have a test. I think you know, I looked at your website, it is beautiful. I put the link for the Passion Test. So businesses the passion center.com Center, spelled R E instead of er because there's more passion in the RV. And I think that I don't know, I'm very excited that you're doing this. This is a good year, this year next year 20 to 23. So good year for people to look at their pain and redefine their purpose in life by looking at their passions, and the pain that their neglected passions might be whispering to them. Look over here, right? And they say my favorite philosophers was that what's the name of the Ellen? Ellen DeGeneres? She's one of my favorite philosophers, she does some amazing things. And one of the things she says is, procrastination is a gift, where you end up doing instead of doing are supposed to do might just be something you need to pay attention to. And I think that that's the gift of like you were talking about your illness or car accidents or whatever. What is the gift hidden behind our pain, to help us find our passion? So we can make our world and the the whole world a better place? So I think you're, you've nailed it. Thanks. Before we ask for your final words of wisdom, Rabbi, I believe you have a word of the day. I do have a word, I'll put it in the chat for everyone

Yonason Goldson: 31:25

that's a little difficult to pronounce.

Margarita Gurri: 31:29

I can't pronounce it.

Yonason Goldson: 31:32

You putrescible in putrescible, which it comes from the same root as putrid? Why would we want to have a word of the day that has anything to do with the thing pewter? Well, if you festival is the is that is not being liable to decomposition or purification, which is another way of saying incorruptible. When you know why the things decompose, it's because there's a lack of life. There's a lack of energy. And so if we lose our passion for life, our bodies may not decompose, although there are definitely health issues that will come from that. But more profoundly, our spirit can putrefy our spirit can decompose. And we can start making compromises, in our values, in our in our relationships. And so what we want to do by preserving this sense of passion, that you've inspired us to think about Cara, we can we can elevate ourselves become stronger, we can become more alive. And ultimately we can become incorruptible. Because when I'm really passionate about something, I don't want to compromise anything. The question is, what are we passionate about? Are we making sure that we've, we found a purpose, a meaning a community of vision that's worthy of our passion, and that we found like minded people, to support us and work together in, in developing that passion? When we do that, we will be incorruptible, and we will make a tremendous positive contribution to the world we live it.

Margarita Gurri: 33:26

Well, here, we're going to be part of your passion pod.

Unknown: 33:30

Perfect. Oh, my gosh, you understand that was beautiful. I could not say anything better than that. Like that. That right there. You've nailed it. Passion is the life inside of us. It is us. And when we can connect to that we connect to ourselves, each other the planet, everything just makes more sense. And I think it's the harmonizing of those things. And that journey is is what is the actual hero's journey, right? How do we get back to who we are, and express all of it? And one, once we're able to do that? Everything changes? It really does. You know, there's there's just no other way. I could have said that better. Thank you.

Yonason Goldson: 34:13

You know, there is one thing I wanted to ask you though. Passion is something we generate from the inside. And yet we live in a world where not everybody shares our passion or not. Nobody recognized our passion. Now, not everybody is interested in helping us live our passion. So you know, if I have a brilliant idea, I need to sell that to other people. If I have a wonderful service, I have to convince other people to patronize that service. We run into the realities of the world you were talking earlier about the internal and the external. Even if I generate my internal I may start running into walls or obstacles. In the external that that can sort of interfere with the development of passion. What do I do, then?

Unknown: 35:11

My goodness, welcome to the entrepreneurship journey. That is the entrepreneur in a nutshell. I think it is you are going to come against you're come up against obstacles. And I mean, I'm even coming up against obstacles right now, I don't think the obstacles ever go away. But I think it's that I think it's someone wants some painted me this, this picture. So simple, that it was so brilliant. And what they did was they put this there was three circles, right? One was a little small circle, one was a medium circle, and one was a really large circle. And they put a really large circle as your Y, or let's say it, let's call it your passion, right? That's the driver. And the the bigger circle than the small circle is your obstacle, and you are the small circle. And your passion needs to be your self belief, all of these functions of what of what makes you you like, that needs to be so big. And you need to develop a muscle that's so big, that you can see that even through the obstacles that has to be bigger than the obstacle. If the obstacle is bigger than your passion, then you haven't done enough work on your passion. Like, it's, it's, it's really as simple as that. Because life isn't going to be, you know, as a skate in the park. And when we make decisions to live our truest, and to and to marry ourselves to what we're really here on this planet to do. And I do believe that everyone is here to do something that is something that I absolutely 1,000% believe, and I've seen it. And I think you know, it can be hard sometimes to fully express ourselves when people don't believe in us. Or when people tell us we have a bad idea. Or when people look at us and say Oh, that's too complicated. That'll never work or you don't have the right background to be going after that thing. Like there's a million different objections that people will have to your path. But you got to believe in that path with crystal clarity. And you have to keep walking, and keep making those steps. And I believe that every time you make a step, the universe will make a step or God will make a step, whatever, whatever word you have for this external thing that exists and is very tangible. And we can't see it, but it will make a step. But you've got you've got to build that infrastructure within yourself. And that starts itself belief. That's kind of how I would address that.

Margarita Gurri: 37:45

Well said, well said

Yonason Goldson: 37:48

thank you. Well, that be your final thought for for us today. Kara? Do you want to add something like that?

Unknown: 37:57

Um, no, I think I think it's a it's a gutsy move. When when people take what they really believe in and move it in the world. And I think what you would find is, yes, there's going to be objections. But you're also going to find your tribe, there's going to be people who are attracted to what you want to do and what you're doing and they'll see your authenticity shine and what you're trying to make. And I'm telling you like I've had angels on earth help me with this stuff. Like there's no way I could have planned all of the things that have happened in the last four years. They've, they've surpassed my own abilities to actually get this to market. So I'm so lovely. This magic so happens along with the terrifying other stuff. So I'm just keep saying your path and and you will you'll Yeah, I think I you will get to your own mastery. That's That's what I believe as well.

Yonason Goldson: 38:59

I'm curious, a thank you for inspiring us. Yes, thank you for giving us the opportunity to share your passion. And Doctor, do you have a last word for us?

Margarita Gurri: 39:09

Oh, I'm never short an opinion as my twin sister and I always say the idea of passion for me is very exciting. Because with passion. Anything's possible. The mistake that I see many people doing is that they wake up and say I have passion, and they thrust it on other people. And then they let themselves be discouraged when other people don't say yeah, yeah, that's great. make video games in your basement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's perfect. If we have a passion, a true passion, we have to have courage and we have to be patient. If we keep doing it and find those like minded people, our passions will be realized in a way that adds more yumminess to the world into our lives. Don't give up don't get frustrated if you don't know what your passions are, as I always say When in doubt, just pretend to be you. And those passions will show themselves.

Unknown: 40:07

Oh, that's a good one. I like that.

Margarita Gurri: 40:10

That that is my thought I see too many people, demanding that others support them and then blame others for not achieving their passions, or their goals. No one's responsible for our passions, but us know, if we are joyful in our passions, and gentle and loving, we will find those like minded people. And then magic happens like you say angels on earth. Yeah. And I have no doubt with the way you speak. You speak so lovingly, you speak softly and kindly. You don't blame and shame you talk about people's journeys in a lovely way, I have no doubt that you will achieve whatever it is. That is the end point of each of the passions that you face in your life. And I'm sure you'll have many barriers that will only serve to strengthen your passion just like for all of us, though, that's that's my final, final say, be patient and have courage. Well, everyone, it's been lovely having here today here. Yes, snaps. It's doing that. We will see you next week on an episode of The rabbi in the shrink. If you have questions for us, please podcast at the rabbi and the shrink.com. And we'd be delighted to address what you want to address. We have been grateful to you today. Thank you for sharing your passions and the secrets that you discovered. I hope when your study goes on a little further, you'll come back and tell us your findings.

Unknown: 41:38

I well, I absolutely. Well, well. Please

Margarita Gurri: 41:41

do please do. We will appreciate it. Everyone take care and make it a passionate week.

Unknown: 41:48

Thank you so much, guys. Thank you for having me really had a lot of thanks for

Yonason Goldson: 41:51

joining us.