The Rabbi and The Shrink
What do you get when you cross an Orthodox hitchhiking rabbi and a Catholic Cuban psychologist? An award-winning podcast with unpredictable conversations about everyday ethics and the secrets for successful relationships in business, family, and community.
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The Rabbi and The Shrink
#76: Dr. Robyn Odegaard - Confronting the Status Quo
Why do so many of us not achieve our own potential?
What can we do to turn failure into success?
How do we bridge the gap between perception and reality?
These and more topics are addressed when concierge, high performance, psychology coach Dr. Robyn Odegaard joins The Rabbi and the Shrink.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robynodegaard/
https://drrobynodegaard.com/
It's easy to be mediocre, because if you don't try, you can't fail.
Don't repeat the mistake of Cain.
Five step paradigm:
1) What is your goal?
2) What is your plan?
3) What do I need to know or know how to do that I don't know now?
4) What are your psychological barriers?
5) What people, places, or habits are helping or hurting us?
Changing our environment can help us change what needs to be change.
Once you make the choice to change, change becomes easier and more likely.
Talking about ourselves can be limiting.
Giving advice is dangerous; giving good advice is deadly.
Rebuke is validating when it's given with care and concern.
Shame is imposed from the outside, but it's our choice whether we accept it.
Ethics demands that we make ourselves competent.
Have the courage to question your own expertise, competence, and objectivity.
"Perception is what you think; reality is what I think."
Learn from the intellectual integrity of Abraham Lincoln.
Listen to everyone, then make your own decisions.
Don't compromise with the middle.
Employees who are overworked, overwhelmed, and underutilized is a formula for disaster.
The word of the day: Hegira [ hi-jahy-ruh]
Flight or journey to a more agreeable location
Rabbi Akiva's transition from illiterate shepherd to the leader of his generation via the coaching of his wife, Rachel.
Welcome to an episode of The Rabbi and The Shrink. This is Dr. Margarita Guri, the shrink, and my favorite Rabbi Goldson with a good rabbi and I have with you a high performance concierge coach. Her name is Dr. Robin Odegaard. Welcome Dr. Robin.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Hi. Thanks for having me.
Margarita Gurri:Now, since you're highperformance, you don't mind me bragging about you a little bit, right? I would love it if you would. So in Spanish, we have a saying, quote as Ethan Latina Leila, which means poor thing doesn't have a grandmother, which means if there's a grandmother around, she brags about you. So you don't have to. So I'm going to brag a little bit. I think we have a very interesting thinker here. Dr. Robin comes from the world of competitive beach volleyball. And she learned the hard way about what it's like to not have people have high expectations of you. Because you're and I'm, I'm putting words in your mouth. Because you're young, you're beautiful, you're female, the way people look at you, and you're not very braggy. So you don't maybe come across, showing off who you are. And you use that in a very thoughtful way. To be quite a thoughtful thinker. You created a bunch of programs. You're a speaker, you have a TEDx program, about creating success out of chaos, which right now, everyone must be very happy, because it's been a lot of chaos. So I'm sure you're busier than all than ever before. And you have you're citing organizational psychology. And you've written three books, the titles I'm going to read because I love them. Stop the drama, The Ultimate Guide to female teams. Oh, well, thank you, Dr. Robin. And the next one, The Ultimate Guide to Handling every disagreement every time. I like that and how to feed a human the whole food muse, a whole food muscle way. All right, very cool. Just got many, many years in the corporate world and many years as a coach. I'm welcome. And tell us please about what you do. What makes you a concierge, high performance psychology? Coach?
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Yeah, so people sometimes call me crisis coach, sometimes they'll say that sometimes people will say that I create success out of chaos by being a smokejumper. Like I parachute in and help fight life's fires from the inside. I have a client who says that I'm the rock for the rocks and her world, she has to hold everything together. And if she's not holding it together, then she's like, you gotta help me. And so, you know, we're, those are the kinds of things that I do. I've been really fortunate that people trust me with their lives, like the stories people tell me. So for example, last fall, I had someone call me just out of the blue on a Saturday, and he said, Robin, you have to help me. My dad just went on life support. And I'm the executor, you have to help me decide if I'm going to kill my dad. Ah. And so I get you know, I when I talk to other coaches, they always say, Robin, I know when to send somebody to you because I don't want the crisis. I don't want the chaos. I don't want the crazy. They. So that makes me different in that way.
Margarita Gurri:Go ahead, grab this. It's
Yonason Goldson:a fascinating skill set to have. Because, you know, Dr. Richard and I often observe that work at partnership, because I had a big picture person, and she's a detail person who's also handles crises very well. And thank you, sir. I'm perfectly happy to allow others to to take that over. It's good to know there are people in the world who can do that, because we need you.
Margarita Gurri:Yeah, it is a good skill set. And I think then it helps you provide a trusting bond with somebody so that they can move forward to their high performance lives, which is, I think, a lovely. So let me ask this. Why is it most of us never achieve our true high performance potential?
Dr. Robin Odegaard:That is a really loaded question. Well, thank you. A lot of it is I think, if you've ever read the book, The Big Leap, I think we upper limit ourselves. I think at some point in our lives, we were told you're allowed to be this successful, you're allowed to be this happy. And so we have that voice in our head that says, Oh, I shouldn't do this, or I can't do this, or I've tried that that's going to fail or we have an external voice. I know I have family members who are like, Oh, you shouldn't do that. Who do you think you are? And we believe that and so we never really go out and succeed. You know, you How do I explain it in a good way? It's easy to be mediocre because if you don't try you can't fail. So if you only ever tried to do the things you know you can do you're never going to achieve those stretch goals.
Yonason Goldson:When when Cain brings his offering to God and it's not accepted. The sage has explained that that he brought not the best of his produce, it's rather brought the best of his and his was accepted, can't figure out what what's the point, God's not going to eat it anyway, it's not going to eat my tomatoes. So I might as well keep the good stuff for myself. And he's upset that he's not, he's not recognized. And God comes to him and says that if you do, well, if you do you're capable of doing, you will be recognized. And if not, sin is crouching at the door. And in Judaism, the doorway is a symbol of transition. And transition is hard. We like to stay in our comfort zones. So when we approach a door in life, any point of opportunity or potential growth, there's this little voice saying, Don't do it. It's too risky. It's not worth it. It's not worth taking a chance, just stay where you're comfortable. And then if we get through the door, another voice starts saying, wow, look what you accomplished. Isn't that wonderful? You can rest now. But really, what we should be doing is always looking for the next doorway to go through.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:After you do have yourself on the back. Give you a minute. Yeah,
Yonason Goldson:you get a minute.
Margarita Gurri:And then without getting demoralized, that there's more and more and more. No, my dog is my high performance coach, you see her in the background, ah, see helps you always keep going for the next and not take ourselves too seriously, that our failures, our, our, our what we're capable of. It's only the invitation for more. So let's say someone in the audience is struggling with the issue of wanting to or thinking they deserve to be high performance. What do you say, Dr. Robin?
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Well, so the first thing you have to do is figure out what is it you want? So I have kind of a five step paradigm that I kind of help people walk through what is it I would love to share with you? So the first thing is, what do I want? What is my what is my goal? And a lot of times when you please ask people that they're like, Well, I don't know, I don't have a goal. So then flip it around. Well, what is not working right now? Where are you right now that isn't making you happy that isn't giving you fulfillment? Because if you can talk sometimes we're better about talking about what's negative. And if you can talk about what's negative, then you can say, okay, now I have a goal, I want that to stop happening. What does that look like? So figured out your goal? What is it you want to have happen? And if you have to look at the negative do that, then the second piece of it is okay, what's my strategy? What's my plan? And you have to do problem deconstruction, because now you've got this big goal. But you got to figure out how do I break it down into something that's actually doable? So what's the first step, and the suggestion I like to give people is your first step should could fit into two categories. One, it should be small enough that you can take it and if it doesn't work, you can back out of it. So don't take a huge step in and be like, well, now I'm stuck out here. This didn't work, small step that I'll give you information. That's the first piece got to give you information. Am I on the right path? And is it small enough that if it doesn't work, I can back out of it? So figure out your strategy, take a small step that gives you information if you're heading the right way. The next piece is knowledge or skills. What do I need to know or be able to do that I can't currently, and that doesn't mean oh, I have to go out and learn it. Let me go spend 10 years in school because a lot of people get stuck in the knowledge and skill space, because they spend all kinds of time learning and they never actually take action. So it might make sense for you to hire someone. For example, if you need someone with my skill set, could you learn to do what I do? Sure, give yourself 15 years, you could probably do what I do. But hire me we can get you through the process in three months, six months. So look at the skills and knowledge that you need find out should you hire someone? Or should you learn it? Sometimes it makes sense to hire someone. Those are kind of the three easy parts. The next piece is your psychological barriers. And I'm sure doctor you see this. These are the saboteurs the Upper Limiting the things that tell me Oh, I can't do that. I shouldn't do that, oh, I tried that it didn't work. Whatever. What are your psychological barriers and sometimes the hardest part is recognizing that. So have a conversation with someone bring someone in that's going to help you recognize your psychological barriers and then hold you accountable to overcoming them. And the last piece, people places things and habits that either help or hurt. Very often we have habits in our lives. We don't even recognize or are limiting our ability to succeed. So that's something I like to look at with clients. So that's my kind of five step paradigm and they don't have to go in that order. That's just the mortar there in my brain. But that's how I do it.
Yonason Goldson:You know we have an expression in Judaism change your place, change your fortune and If you've sort of put an interesting angle on it that I hadn't really thought about before, that it's not merely something that's metaphysical, that's something that is deeply psychological, that when I'm in the same place, literally or figuratively, then I'm likely to keep doing the same things. Because the environment is connected with those habits. And when I put myself in a different place, then naturally, I'm going to be exposed to different stimuli that are going to help me respond differently and actively and change the things that need to be changed.
Margarita Gurri:Yeah, that takes a lot of courage. It does. So by the time that someone has decided that they are going to try and change their place, what percentage do you think actually follow through?
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Well, I was gonna say, unfortunately, but maybe fortunately, the people who come to me are a higher percentage likely to actually change because they've self selected into working with someone like me, it's the people who never self select into getting help and finding out their their barriers and doing it. So I don't know, I don't have a good percentage, because the people who work with me a lot of them do create a lot of change.
Margarita Gurri:I would imagine that I think that you create a safe space for people I can see in your reading and in your, your, your writing. And then your presentations are very thoughtful action.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Thank you. And then the thing is, I've been through chaos, you know, some of my personal story is very, very chaotic. And so very rarely can a client come to me and share something where I can't say, Yeah, been there done that understand.
Margarita Gurri:But I don't think we have to be there and have been through that, in order to be thoughtful. No, you don't, it just helps. And, and I think sometimes, sometimes people who've been through experiences do themselves and others a disservice by talking about it too much. Because there's only one way through it. Yes, and you are an expert, regardless of what your experience is, you have an amazing skill set in terms of how you think, and how you create solutions. And I think talking about ourselves is sometimes very limiting. And I see that you don't do that all the time. Some people do do that all the time. And it limits their the scope of what they
Yonason Goldson:offer. I'm gonna get back to the point about being courageous. It's really fascinating to me, I recently had an opportunity to solicit a number of people for to critique some work that I was doing. And the responses were fascinating. Because the ones who had suggestions on how I can improve, I mean, it's always nice when people tell you, Oh, it's wonderful. It's great. It's terrific. You know, we like to hear that. But it's much more useful. When people tell you, here's how you can improve. And some of the respondents were very direct, which I appreciate it. You're welcome. We're hyper cautious, huh. Just couched in so many caveats. You know, this is just my opinion. And it couldn't be that you could do this a little different. And like, they're, they're terrified that they're going to offend me, which I don't really blame them for. I assume it comes from experience. When people ask for advice, and then you give it to them, they get, they get very offended.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:There is that old saying giving advice is dangerous. giving good advice is deadly.
Margarita Gurri:It can be
Yonason Goldson:interesting if we if we really want to improve if we really want to make our own lives better. You know, I've pointed out before that the Hebrew word for rebuke is related to the word that means to validate. Because when I'm giving you correction, I'm saying I believe that you have the capacity to do better. And I want to help you become a better version of yourself. And why would we not appreciate that?
Dr. Robin Odegaard:As long as that is the intent. I mean, you can certainly be rebuked by people whose whole goal is to tear you down. That's the thing. Yeah.
Margarita Gurri:And some people give us negative feedback, especially people when we're younger, because they're afraid we're going to break our hearts with failure. And so they do more damage by setting that limit of what we should do. I had someone told me I was too kind, that I should not get a higher degree. And I I luckily, I thought it was kind of funny. So I didn't, you know, did I have a big brother? So I have a thick skin, you know, and so I was thinking all the time thanks for for helping me not take some criticism seriously. And I think many people get very beaten down by what they're not allowed to do. Or like in your case, you know, they miss judge you because of who you are. Mm hmm. I so One of your one of your stories that that I was just shaking my head at is you being told that you were average? Oh, yeah. Which I think is funny as all get out. Now on the one hand, I know that that spurred you on without even talking to is you have such a fighting spirit. I mean, PhD records, you've done this, you've done that. I mean, you're all over the place with super success. So I know it didn't stop you. I'm sure it hurt you.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:I'm sure for many years. Yes. But
Margarita Gurri:you didn't back from it. Yeah. What helped you come back from it? Now? That's not the question I was going to ask. But what did I know?
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Okay. Yeah. So Well, the fact that I was average, so when my father wanted to marry me off when I was 18. And yes, that is exactly what it sounds like, he married me off at 18. I wanted to do what I was supposed to do. I was a good girl. And you know, I'm a woman. And I certainly can't lead because I'm too emotional. And so when my father picked him in that I should marry I did. And so long story, I won't get into it. It's funny story. But I ended up getting out of it. Because the drug cartel he got involved with didn't like me, and they wanted me out of the way. And so fortunately for me, they convinced him that he could do better than me, and he'd be better off without me. So he threw me out. Very smart of you, good strategy. And so but I came out of that marriage, and I felt like a failure. And my father called me and gave me the whole speech about if I had been appropriately submissive, I would have been able to make it work. And I felt a lot of shame. A lot of, I failed, I didn't do what I was supposed to do. Now I'm gonna go to hell like all of the things. And it took me a long time to realize I can't do anything about that. And so I can either stay here in this shame space and do nothing with my life, or I can make a choice. And so I made the choice to make made my own mistake, I married a narcissistic closeted bisexual, but that's a different story.
Margarita Gurri:That's that. That sounds interesting, though. If someone is in that shame, space, what do you suggest we tell them? So we can be of support?
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Okay, so the thing about shame is that it is self induced. It's like guilt. Other people can pack your bags, but you have to choose to go on a guilt trip. I'm gonna disagree with you. You don't think external? Well, so it's put on you, but you can choose not to accept it. And that's what I decided is yes, my dad could shame me. And he could say all these things. And he could teach me Yes, yes. And I can either choose to take that as valid and feel it and stay there. Or I could say, No, you're wrong. And I'm not going to tolerate that. And I'm going to do something else. And that's when I say it's x, when it's its internal, it means I get a choice whether I'm going to accept that baggage.
Margarita Gurri:And you did not?
Dr. Robin Odegaard:I did not I did a little while.
Margarita Gurri:Well, okay, because good girls listen to what their daddy say. But No, daddy is perfect. Even they do the best they can. And sometimes it's just wrong. So what do we say to somebody who is limiting themselves? Because of that shame space?
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Well, I mean, you're asking me, but I think you probably have just as much advice on this as I
Margarita Gurri:do. But I figured that your story, and you're very eloquent about it. And this is kind of what you do. How do we move someone thoughtfully beyond the shame space?
Dr. Robin Odegaard:So the thing that I do with my clients is I give them a chance to tell the story. Tell me your perception of what actually happened. You know, the difference between perception and reality? Perception is what you think reality is what I think.
Margarita Gurri:That's good. That's very good.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:So my question is, what is your reality? And then I start gently, kind of testing that well, is that what happened? Is that Is that true? Do you believe that? What if it was different? What would it look like if it was different? And when you gently invite someone and I use a motivational interviewing techniques, which I'm sure you're familiar with Doc, it when you gently invite someone to observe themselves and kind of look at what could I make different and what would it be like if it were different? They'll move through on your own. What I know doesn't work is when you tell people stop feeling that way and change it.
Margarita Gurri:Snap out of it. Yeah. Right.
Yonason Goldson:Get over it.
Margarita Gurri:Talk about more shame, huh? Well, the world is grateful that you got out of it. Thank you. I am too. Yeah, and you're doing some pretty amazing things. So now rabbi, here's the question you and I always get to and I'm gonna ask both of you this. What is all of this have to do with it? So either you can answer or
Dr. Robin Odegaard:you go first. I've been talking a lot. Well, if you
Margarita Gurri:are the guest, but Rabbi always has good answers.
Yonason Goldson:You know, one of the things that I seem to be dealing with a lot today, today these days is things not working the way they're supposed to and people not doing what they're supposed to and you could look at it just as a matter of competence. If what is it the is it the Peter Principle that every person rises to his level of incompetence? Yes, the Peter Principle, which, which is a sort of a systemic problem that we won't go into too much. But if I commit myself to do a job, what you mentioned Dr. Robin, I couldn't learn the skills myself. And if I'm determined to do the job, then I, I'm obligated to learn the skills myself, or I'm obligated to find someone else to whom I can subcontract. And if I don't choose one of those respects, one of those options, then I'm really guaranteeing the job is not going to be done properly. And that is unethical. Because people are going to suffer, if I'm not doing doing my job well, and certainly I'm going to suffer. So inflicting pain on myself is also unethical. I shouldn't be doing that either. So finding, making that commitment, and developing the skills and developing a plan, the strategy, this is all integral to making sure that things get done the way they need to get done for the benefit of all of us.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Yeah, and in my space, kind of piggybacking on that, I see a lot of coaches who they do the easy part of the job, which is going into somebody's emotional attic, and emptying up the trunk of all their emotional stuff, and doing therapy when they're not qualified to do therapy. And what they do is they end up leaving all of the emotional stuff laying all over the attic, and they hold up the trunk and say, Oh, your trunk is empty, you're okay, now off you go. And instead of the stuff being in a trunk, where at least it was safe and not being tripped over is now laying all over the place for people to trip over. And so I think that, ethically, it's my responsibility to make sure that I leave people in a better place than I found them, and not go into situations that I'm not qualified to handle. And not allow people to end up in a space where they're unable to manage their daily life because they came to talk to me, I think that's unethical. And I see it a lot in the coaching space. And it frustrates me.
Margarita Gurri:When we see ethics in what you do. Rabbi, can I tell the story about when Dr. Robin was on your on your podcast? Oh, yeah, sure. One of the things the rabbi told me, which touched my heart, was you were talking about a topic and then you asked, shall I recuse myself? Because you had had this similar experience? And I think that very few people have the courage and the ethical foundation and awareness to ask, is that something I should not address? Because it's the conflict of interest? Or I should recuse myself? Because maybe I'm too close to the subject. Maybe I won't answer it in a thoughtful enough way. And that kind of ethical courage is what I see in many of your works. And I think that one of the things one of the ways that the rabbi and I talk about people being ethical, is by aspiring to grapple with the gray which is the rabbi's good book and podcast. It's got a podcast where invites people in the grappled agree on various ethical issues, which I find delightful.
Yonason Goldson:Talking about, and you know, I would even add to what you're saying, doctor, the doctor, I mean, you could have just as easily thought or said, well, since I went through this case, myself, I am now eminently qualified expert
Dr. Robin Odegaard:now, rather than
Yonason Goldson:maybe. And that may, in fact, be true.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:But you know, what's interesting, though, is I ended up arguing for the side of the conversation that I didn't choose when I was in the situation,
Yonason Goldson:yes, which which was doubly so doubly intellectual integrity. And asked the question, should I be on the show, and you let me make the call as the host. And that's, you know, it goes back to your point, which I love that perception is my reality is by how you say it. My perception is what I think and reality is what you think
Dr. Robin Odegaard:perceptions, what you think reality is what I think.
Margarita Gurri:Yeah, I think that's I think that's perfect. I think being ethical, is a call to action. And I think that one of the things you're you're proposing, I think, is that there's ethics as a coach, that are going to propel you to do the very best for your clients, and to help them reach their ultimate choice for performance. I mean, not everyone chooses to be high performance.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:So and that's the thing. I can't push someone into something that isn't for them that would work on f4 for
Margarita Gurri:them, then that may not everyone's ready for that now. I think all of us, the three of us do coaching, we've all said, perhaps this is not the time for you to do this. It's it. Why don't we, you know, why don't we, you know, revisit this conversation, when you're ready to address this issue or when things are going better in your life or whatever. Certainly all of us have done them. And with good results, it's interesting.
Yonason Goldson:Well, one of all our heroes, I presume, is Abraham Lincoln. But you know, he's one of those figures that we learn about for a few days in like second grade. And then think we know who he was. I read the biography, a Team of Rivals, which just puts him in such an extraordinary light. He's surrounded him with people who didn't think like he did. And didn't think like each other. And then he was warned not to. And but he wanted, he wanted different voices. And he listened to all of them. And then he would make choices that rum was universally unpopular. Because he had this incredible supernatural sense of timing. And even though when something was the right thing to do, he recognized it wasn't the right moment to do it. And he had the the integrity and the courage and the patience to wait when everybody on one side is telling him, you shut it down and already, and everybody on the other side is saying you shouldn't do it at all. And to wait for the right moment when it would actually be effective.
Margarita Gurri:And isn't that one of the secrets of high performance? For people to learn how to listen to their own? Timing their own instincts?
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Yeah, recognizing the timing, knowing when to when to move, knowing when to weight, all of that. Yeah, definitely.
Margarita Gurri:Yeah. And I think being highperformance takes a whole lot of courage. And I'm glad that people have you, as they, as they work toward that amazing goal that I think makes the world a better place.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:And it requires not compromising to the mediocre middle, I think that that's one of the things that high performers often do is that they give in about things, because they want to compromise they want to be rather than saying, I want to do this and not in a way that oh, I'm taking advantage of other people, but this is what matters to me. And then you have to deal with Am I being selfish, which is a whole separate problem and highperformance
Margarita Gurri:Well, that's a whole nother presentation, isn't it or discussion, the whole issue of selfishness. Rabbi will have to redo that one again, too. That's a great topic. Um, well, speaking of, you know, just other things. I was intrigued in your bio, that you have a dog named nebula. I do and you're teaching nebula to do circus tricks. Yep. I just got to know about this bliss spill.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Yeah. So well, we got this great little dog. She's a rescue. I got her DNA done because they told me that she was a border collie and I grew up with Border Collies because I grew up on a beef ranch. And as soon as we got there, I was like, this is a nose to the ground dog. This is not an eyes up dog. So I did her DNA. And it came back fox terrier Pitbull, Australian Shepherd, Doxon snowsure hound. Wow. So she's super, super smart. And we had to find a way to keep her busy because she's got one of those mines that if you don't give her a job, she'll become an entrepreneur and you won't like what she does. And so I just started going on YouTube and went to the library, got some books and started looking for like, what kind of tricks can that because I taught her all the basic things like you know, come sit, stay down, like all of those, I taught her those, and like, what else can I teach her? So I just started teaching her stuff for fun. And this past week, actually, for the very first time, she joined me on stage when I did a keynote. And the I was doing my keynote, the five, the power five steps paradigm to creating success out of chaos. And the example that I use throughout was teaching her to do a handstand, because for a dog to do a handstand is chaos. Its head down, belly exposed. And so I use an example throughout. And then at the end, she came up and did like, I don't know, a dozen or so circus tricks with me. So that was a lot of fun. First time she's ever been on stage.
Margarita Gurri:Well, I think that's brilliant. I also like the idea of your entourage, there'll become entrepreneurs, but you won't like what they do. That's a great keynote for leaders in terms of inviting and inciting people to learn new things to broaden their scope of high performance. Yeah, I think that is a great keynote. You have to keep people is the nebula effect.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Yeah, we call it an epi She was here, she just walked away.
Margarita Gurri:Well, you see, my mind was a rescue to her, her biggest trick is that she can get anyone to
Dr. Robin Odegaard:love her. Oh, hey, that's good. Yeah, definitely didn't
Margarita Gurri:have to teach her that though.
Yonason Goldson:The you want your people to be to have initiative. You know, all this talk about quiet quitting these days, want people to feel they're members of the team, that they're respected, and that they have a certain amount of tired of this word agency. But now that they have autonomy, they're allowed to take initiative. But there has to be a sufficient structure and respect for the system. For them to exercise that autonomy in a way that is not the kind of entrepreneurship that you're you're describing?
Margarita Gurri:Well, and that's what you're teaching people how to do create psychological safety for themselves and for their teams.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:And that requires creating the space where as a leader, they can come to me and say, I don't know what I'm doing. And they don't get shamed and just thrown back in the fire and said, we'll figure it out.
Margarita Gurri:Right, yeah. And even I don't like what I'm doing, or I don't think this works. You know, I think that I forget where, where we're that maybe in a talk show that I listened to of yours. You talked about getting excited as a leader when people disagree with stuff, which I know Abraham Lincoln would appreciate. Yeah. You know, that kind of thing is interesting.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:And you can end up in that space where people are overworked, overwhelmed and underutilized. And that is never good.
Margarita Gurri:It is not? Well, Rob, I do have a word of the day that's been inspired by our Dr. Robin. We do? Well, good.
Yonason Goldson:And, actually, a story came to mind, if you don't mind.
Margarita Gurri:I never mind your stories.
Yonason Goldson:I don't know if I've told this one before. But the everybody knows the greatest Jewish leader in history was Moses is torah leader. The second greatest Torah leader was someone not as well known outside the Jewish community as Rabbi Akiva. And Rebbi. Akiva was an illiterate Shepherd, for the first 40 years of his life. And he was tending the sheep of his employer who was one of the wealthiest men in Jerusalem. And his master's daughter. It was Rachel came walking by one day, and we don't know exactly how the conversation went. But presumably, she said, Hello, he said, Hello. They started chatting. And she quickly recognized that this was a person of extraordinary wisdom, even though he had no formal education. And after further conversation, she said, you know, if you would study, you could become a great sage and a great leader. And he said, Well, that's a nice idea. But I am a shepherd, I haven't I have a job to do. And, you know, back then, you couldn't just go online and start to take his night college courses. While she said something extraordinary. She said, Well, you have so much potential if you would commit yourself to study, I'd marry you, and I support you. And, and he took her up on it, and you can guess her father was not pleased, not and cut them off. And they lived in poverty for many years. And he subsequently became the greatest sage in the history of the Jewish people. Second only to Moses. Wow. not heard of him, either. Well, many, many habit outside the Jewish world. But, you know, she was an extraordinary coach. And you know, you're talking about being a submissive wife. I don't think she saw herself as a submissive wife. I think she saw herself as a partner, who was helping someone that she believed in, achieved something extraordinary. And that success was theirs together. And so we talked about Dr. Robin talked very right at the beginning, about having a vision of where you want to go and crafting a plan of how you want to get there. So the word that came to mind is your gyro. And are you familiar with the word Hodge? Hodge is a pilgrimage and I believe it's derived from this word gyro. That means a flight or a journey to a more agreeable location. How do you spell that right, my H E. G. Ira, gyro. Thanks. And this really should be in as we should see our lives as pilgrimage. We are all travelers and we are all headed for a final destination. That until, until we get to the end of our lives, we are on that journey. But there are many stops along the way. And if I'm not finding success, if I'm not finding peace of mind where I am now then either figuratively or literally, I need to uproot myself and move to a situation where there will be different stimuli, there will be different circumstances, I will surround myself with different people. I will find the coaches and the supporters and the encourager to the cheerleaders that are going to help me develop myself fulfill more of my potential, and live the kind of life that I want. And you, Dr. Robin are doing that for the people that you serve. And really, we should all be doing it for the people around us and look for the people that are going to do it for us. Yeah,
Dr. Robin Odegaard:the thing about that is, is you have to make a choice, you know, I could still be living on a 55 acre catfish farm in a house that was slab of concrete plywood walls and a tin roof where I had to cut the grass because it grew under the walls, where the water heater was so small that I could either shave one leg or wash my hair. And I had to make a choice that that was not going to be the life that I was going to lead. And I think that that's the first step to going on that journey is making that choice.
Yonason Goldson:And sometimes, you know, in a case like you're describing, I think many of us would say, Well, that was you had a good motivation to get yourself out of there. Many of us are in situations that you know, it's not so bad. It's not a big problems. I'll just I'll just accept where I am.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:It would have been easier for me if I had just accepted where I was, and as long as far as my family relationships easier. Yeah, I think
Margarita Gurri:status quo no matter how miserable is always in some ways easier to maintain the Wi Fi. In fact, there's a lot of chaos that gets created when we decide to shoot for the moon, or even just less messy life. Maybe the moon is not even in the scope yet.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Yeah, I talked about default life, which is kind of the stay along whatever path it is, and creative life, which is you make it better. And that space between your default life and your creative life is where the chaos happens.
Margarita Gurri:Well, so what's your next adventure? Dr. Ramin?
Dr. Robin Odegaard:Well, he told me not to talk about work. So well know
Margarita Gurri:that the work you can do then the next one's woods for fun fact about work for this one. So for me,
Dr. Robin Odegaard:I have my my quick hits podcasts with rabbis been on it. It's 10 people, one topic. Sorry for people 10 minutes, one topic. And I really enjoy doing that. And so I'm working on how do I make that even bigger and better and more interesting. So that's definitely in my scope of things that I'm doing. And then for fun, you know, we're coming into fall. So for me, summertime is fun, because I can bike ride and I can be outside with the dog. And we have a little cart for the dog to ride in on the boat so she can go bike riding with us. So for fun, I don't know what's next for me, I got to put down the garden for the for the winter. That's up next, I think.
Margarita Gurri:Well, that does sound like fun. That's very good. So final words of wisdom for our listening audience, you've given us a lot to think about what is the take home,
Dr. Robin Odegaard:I think the take home is is you don't have to accept the default. You can choose. And that doesn't mean you have to, I'm not going to judge you if you decide that the default is where you want to be. That is perfectly fine. But you do get to choose. I feel like a lot of people don't feel like they have choices. And you always have a choice.
Yonason Goldson:I think it's a good way to say it is you can choose the default, which is not the same as simply defaulting to the default. thing that's well said.
Margarita Gurri:And I think that people get confused with between a grand life and a chosen life. And for many people that default a very simple, beautiful life does not have to be one of one achievement after another that is external. It could be peace and joy and being a good father, grandmother or aunt or whatever. You know, a good a good family member good friends. Those simple lives our highperformance lives as well.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:I gotta tell you being in two really bad marriages has made me so thankful for the peaceful, quiet, wonderful relationship I have with a man I'm married to now.
Margarita Gurri:Well, we're happy you found him and chose him.
Dr. Robin Odegaard:had asked him out four times, but
Margarita Gurri:we're happy for him to. Yes, that's very nice. Thank you. I'm glad you found each other. Well everyone here we are with Dr. Ron Robin Dr. Robin what's the best way people can reach you?
Dr. Robin Odegaard:LinkedIn is really easy just because of the name like Odegaard it's easy to find me on LinkedIn. My website is Dr. Robin odegaard.com. Which if you're on Zoom, you can see it there and my picture. Those are the two best ways to find me all my contact information is on and
Margarita Gurri:Robin is our OB GYN. Odegaard is od e g AE rd. And that way you can find her. Well everyone will see you on the next episode of The rabbi in the shrink. Thanks for joining us, and may you reach for your own moon.
Unknown:Thank you for listening to the rabbi and the shrimp everyday ethics unscripted to book Dr. Red Shoe Dr. Margarita Guri or Rabbi Jonas and Goldson as speakers or advisors for your organization, contact them at the rabbi and the shrink.com This has been a doctor Red Shoe production